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 Diesel 4

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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Diesel 4   Mon May 07, 2012 7:50 pm

It's been a while since any new diesel work.

But there are plans in progress for a fourth machine.

This time based on another Brissonneau Lotz machine. This loco is at the MTVS and was built originally for the Tramway Deux Sevres.





Here's the basis of the model. An all metal Accucraft Baguely chassis.
This is really a heavy duty piece of kit and just begs to have a real power source.



The dimensions are not quite right. The TDS prototype scales at about 40mm longer and 10mm wider than the Accucraft chassis.
The wheelbase measurements are also a little longer on the prototype but nevertheless it is a good representation of an outside framed, 6 coupled chassis with a jackshaft.

I'm planning to use an aero engine with a permanently coupled brushless motor as a starter and generator.
I have most of the parts and just need some more time now.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Tue May 08, 2012 11:21 am

A cardboard mock up revealed how long this locomotive is.



So then I cut the sides down by 20 mm



I'm not sure about that so I might just cut down by 10mm.
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KleineDicke



Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Tue May 08, 2012 3:29 pm

I like it. Be sure to design it so it can negotiate the sharp left turns on the horizon.

_________________
Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)
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fm12



Location : 87210 Haute Vienne, France

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Tue May 08, 2012 4:03 pm

KleineDicke wrote:
I like it. Be sure to design it so it can negotiate the sharp left turns on the horizon.





lol!

_________________
Modelling trains of the Seychelles Government Railway 2ft6ins metre gauge in central France


LEVEL TRACK HERE NO NEED FOR R/C bouncebouncebouncebouncebouncebouncecheers
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Tue May 08, 2012 5:42 pm

fm12 wrote:
'Modelling trains of the 3ft gauge Seychelles railway'
Cool
In France.... unusual.... pictures and more details?
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fm12



Location : 87210 Haute Vienne, France

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed May 09, 2012 8:54 pm

Carl Hibbs wrote:
fm12 wrote:
'Modelling trains of the 3ft gauge Seychelles railway'
Cool
In France.... unusual.... pictures and more details?



If the Seychelles had a railway,it would be like what I`m building in the garden.Various loading gauge,steam and diesel as long as it fits between the rails.

Sir Mike`s rule8 bounce bounce

_________________
Modelling trains of the Seychelles Government Railway 2ft6ins metre gauge in central France


LEVEL TRACK HERE NO NEED FOR R/C bouncebouncebouncebouncebouncebouncecheers
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tram47



Location : Aquitaine (France)

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Sun May 13, 2012 3:26 pm

DIESEL V M L 4 find ourselves?
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:39 pm

I have today gingerly tested a directly connected BLDC motor and Kyosho engine with no clutch! Keeping thumbs especially away from the crunchy turning parts....

A short film on YouTube to show.



I'm not entirely comfortable with eliminating the clutch but obviously it simplifies the construction.
The alignment needs to be spot on although if you look carefully there is some movement with the motor mounting. I think bigger toothed module 1 gears will be better as I used on this test 0.8. plus some good thick grease.
There is a 25% reduction between the engine 12t and motor 16t gears. If I'm brave I'll reverse the gear ratio and see what happens.
This test was also using a larger 790Kv motor (as Troy does). I would normally use a slightly smaller and lighter 910Kv motor which should again have less resistance.

I did prewarm the engine and then connected the gearing but it does seem to turnover okay cold with the gearing connected.

Next step is to try and start the Kyosho engine with the BLDC motor. That will require some electrical creativity....study
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Sparkeswood



Location : Kent,England

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:23 pm

Excellent.Also this helps others trying to couple their motors.Using the gears they can do away with a solid coupling.
I shall use this method on the next one.
Electrical starting...onboard battery,stabilized charging circuit to charge whilst running?
Big red button marked start (with 'danger' in small letters underneath it) Twisted Evil
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:28 pm

I'm very pleased today as I fitted a non standard carburettor to a Kyosho GX12.
And...it works very satisfactorily.
I used a slide throttle carb from a .18 or 21 engine which had a 10mm diameter fitting. The kyosho engine has a 9mm diameter aperture.
I dismantled the carb and rather surprisingly managed to turn down the alloy housing on 'ye olde cronky lathe'.
I then had to file some 1mm of meat off the side of the carb body so as not to foul the engine block.







For comparison, the standard carb has a rotating throttle and can be mounted left or right. The imposter can only be mounted one way.



The mixture settings are different too.
With a GX12 it is usual to have the mixture screwed out by 2.5 - 3 turns. With this large carb it is only about 1.5 - 2 turns and the fuel seems to flow better although at the moment it seems easy to drown the engine with just a small adjustment.

As mentioned elswhere the Kyosho GX12 carb is often silly money as a spare part but other less branded carbs seem to come up at a cheaper price.

I have a couple more that are going for spin in the lathe this weekend....
And aren't these just great little engines to play about with..... king
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:00 pm

... I did another one this evening.



I haven't tried it out yet.

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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:44 am

I saw a new Kyosho 12 or 15 engine on Ebay with pull start but no carb at 39-99
but also thought I saw new complete 12 or 15s at over a 100 via normal retail channels.
Does this sound right or am I missing something ?
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:06 am

Don't buy one just yet. Smile
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:15 pm

Link to Kyosho GX12 instructions and parts list.

Also some useful data:



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dtsteam



Location : Preston, England

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:25 pm

Ooh ooh ooh, can you measure the exhaust bolts please Carl - they were missing from my E bay find. I'm struggling to find anything long enough so I think I'm going to use a bit of studding, but I'd still like to know the shank length overall and the threaded length if you can help.

ta
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:14 pm

David,

The holes in the engine block are 3mm x 17.5mm long and smooth.
I can just about use 20mm M3 screws/bolts with a threaded manifold although 25mm are better. The proper bolts usually supplied with exhausts are about 28mm long with about 12mm threaded but these vary with supplier.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:36 pm

Busy day of development.

This is what a BLDC motor looks like inside, just a small e clip holding it together.
The rotor has the permanent magnets around the casing and the stator is fixed.



I have mounted the motor in reverse and pushed the shaft through the rotor housing which is held by small grub screws and mounted the stator (which had the e clip) on the bracket dispensing with the now defunct e clip and using the gear to keep everything together.



Mounting bracket is cut cut from a 2mm aluminium box and will form the base for Van's diesel. The whole mounting situation is now much squarer and robust than what I've used before.



I'm also experimenting with rubber mountings. These are quite hard and give just a small amount of flex. They are hollow and the engine is still bolted through with M3 bolts and locking washers.



The rubber mounts are actually tap washers...



So the result is that this BLDC motor is more than capable of turning over a Kyosho GX12 engine under compression.
This is powered by a 12v 6ah lead acid battery and a 30amp rc receiver driven speed controller which is a nighmare to program.



I used an old engine to test without starting. This will be the next stage to start a live engine but will require some care and ingenuity with the electrics and feedback.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:40 pm

There is a carb on e bay but post only to UK so I can't bid.

Someone grab it.

Don't all bid on it though...!!!!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kyosho-Gx12-Carb-Carburettor-Brand-New-Still-In-Packaging-/251206421386?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item3a7d11cb8a
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Sparkeswood



Location : Kent,England

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:57 pm

On it Carl Smile
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Sparkeswood



Location : Kent,England

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:18 pm

How much does that cut down the vibration Carl?
Is it less noisy also?
That's an excellent way of mounting the engine and generator.Hardly any flex or movement with the on piece of metal.Wish I'd thought of that.Mind you I have a severe shortage of metal bit here.I keep eyeing up things around the house that I could use.
Wifey's keeping a close watch........
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:24 pm

Carl Hibbs wrote:
There is a carb on e bay but post only to UK so I can't bid.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kyosho-Gx12-Carb-Carburettor-Brand-New-Still-In-Packaging-/251206421386?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item3a7d11cb8a

Troy is looking at this.

So don't anybody else bid please......!!!!

There'll be others.

......................................................................................................................................................................................

For the metal I've been using aluminium box section offcuts from when they came to fit our covered terrace a while ago.
Try a company that does conservatories or covered patios they might have a skip.
Also perforated steel joinery brackets for roofing supports are quite good too and they come in many sizes and thickness.

I'm not sure about less vibration and noise yet but it does give a tiny bit which seems to help meshing with the gears. You can squash them a tad so you can be very precise with the engine's mounting in 3 directions.

We need another exhibition now to try out these things!

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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:43 pm

Only just seen this and in view of previous comments I thought I was bidding for the group.
I will stop bidding forthwith and willingly hand over any booty.

Any suggested course of action welcomed.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:36 pm

It doesn't really matter who gets it, if at all... I just didn't want people to bid against themselves.
It's already 10.50 and to be honest I wouldn't bid much higher than that, maybe 15 maximum.
They come up secondhand from time to time for around 10-15 sometimes with a shagged engine attached!


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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:49 pm

Carl, if I am not outbid I will send this to you. I do not need this in the short term as I have plenty of projects to finish before 2 stroking. I only bid because of the general need expressed to nobble any stray carbs.

There appears to be a surfeit of spares in NZ.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:54 pm

Thanks David but if you get it just keep it as a spare in the UK.
I have a few working engines now with 'modded' carbs.

You've looked at NZ too! Shame about the postage!
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PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Today at 6:05 am

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