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 Diesel 4

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Carl Hibbs
Admin



PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:26 pm

My speed controllers turned up too and I tried one very briefly up to 14volts without any apparent damage so far. The speed control wasn't fantastically smooth but for less than 10 euros what the....!
I've still got the bulky Electronize if I really need to cope with high voltage and current.
Now I know I can use one two-wire phase I might try some other oddities like a step down transformer - if I don't blow myself up that is!

The direct coupling is again 'work in progress' and I ultimately want to try and eliminate any coupling at all by incorporating the BLDC rotor as part of the flywheel and crankshaft. This requires some creative engineering but if I make or get made an extended 5mm crankshaft spigot to I will be almost there. Smile

So where are you up to with your project?

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dtsteam



Location : Preston, England

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:44 pm

Yes, sorry, I'd forgotten that they were 8 volt ESC's. My project stalled I'm afraid - just too much stuff on the go and not enough time. Having said that, if I can clear a path to the lathe there is a lot to be said for a solid coupling.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:04 am

Electric start....

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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:35 pm

Here is a simple schematic of what I tried today.



The glowplug controller is optional and something I made up from a kit to run off 12volts.

There doesn't seem to be any adverse interaction between the output from the starter ESC with the output from the BLDC motor when it's running and both were connected - surprisingly!Shocked
For security I put in two switches which could in fact be one changeover switch.
There appeared to be a conflict with the BECs from both ESCs which caused the receiver to behave erratically so I used a separate battery pack.
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fm12



Location : 87210 Haute Vienne, France

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:52 pm

And I thought learning French was hard.
You might as well have posted the Times crossword.

_________________
Modelling trains of the Seychelles Government Railway 2ft6ins metre gauge in central France
 
 
LEVEL TRACK HERE NO NEED FOR R/C bouncebouncebouncebouncebouncebouncecheers
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:25 pm

Actually there are a lot of faults with the French because..... I was in a hurry.Wink
There was someone over on VML asking about live diesels and they wanted a schematic plan.

...anyway, what is 6 across?
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fm12



Location : 87210 Haute Vienne, France

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:55 pm

Carl Hibbs wrote:
...anyway, what is 6 across?
 
 
Easy peasy,that question would not even make the Sun.
And to show I`m not a numpty,I`ll answer it.
 
A large scale engine that looks bigger than its build of 1/30

_________________
Modelling trains of the Seychelles Government Railway 2ft6ins metre gauge in central France
 
 
LEVEL TRACK HERE NO NEED FOR R/C bouncebouncebouncebouncebouncebouncecheers
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Saint-Oblas



Location : Lyon, France

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:25 pm

Carl,

I am very interesting in your developments. I have not yet choosen my brushless motor. What Iam wodering about is the relationship beetween the kv, the output voltage and the rpm for brushless as GENERATORS (I was vey much surprised your brushless giving 14V at idle).
I simply thought that roughly:

V = rpm / kv

so with an ordinary kv of 1000, at idle rpm of 2000, one would get 2 Volts.

Am I completely wrong?

Thanks
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:08 pm

The '14v' I was referring to was a test with a cheap speed controller and not the ouput voltage on idle.

You are quite right wth the KV values. A 1000 KV motor requires 1 volt to make it turn at a 1000rpm.
And will give out 1 volt when spun at 1000 rpm. or very slightly less although the losses are negligible.

Choose the KV rating to suit your requirements. A low KV rating may mean you need to rev up the engine to get a decent voltage ouput. And a high KV rating will take off as soon as you connect to the traction motor but this would be better if using an electronic speed controller between BLDC and traction motor as the operating threshold for these are usually >5v.

I have not yet accurately worked out the amperage for these BLDC motors.
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Saint-Oblas



Location : Lyon, France

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:37 pm

Carl,

A question thathas little to deal with diesel power:

On such a chassis with three axles, how do they manage to run on small diameter curves: Are the axles able to move lateraly? Or any other trick?

By the way the Brissonneau is a very funny diesel, even if has not been a real industrial success. Could be also a good model for a mechanical transmission diesel like "Detritus". Usually three axles diesel with rod transmission just have a small cabin and a reduced boot; in this one one has plenty of room to house equipment.

For the reason I am questioning you, I would be reluctant for a small garden track. What is your experience on small radius curves?
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:25 pm

The axles are very close coupled and the centre wheels are flangeless on some models.

The Accucraft 030 Baguley chassis does not have flangeless drivers but has a lot of lateral play in the axles.

I run almost all my stock on the portable layout which has 75cm radius curves. Most items go round ok.
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Saint-Oblas



Location : Lyon, France

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:37 pm

OK, so one must aloud some lateral play in the axles. I prefer this to flangeless wheels.

Thanks,
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Saint-Oblas



Location : Lyon, France

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:38 pm

I have not received my BLDC motor yet. But I am wodering how to have it start the gas motor as you successfully did. Have you an idea of how to have the ESC controlling the BLDC work without having a radio. I would like in the first step have direct control. I have no idea how they are given their set points. As a matter of facts, I bought the controller without knowing anything about it! I would not like to explode it at the first try!

An other question: how are the bogies linked to the chassis. I imagine their is a kind of two plate rotating one over the other, but they must be some elastic part to absorb variations in slope? I saw that Aristocraft proposes a U shape piece, but it takes plenty of room, and it just compensate one direction, not both. Have you tried several devices?
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:01 pm

You need a high power brushless ESC to control the BLDC. You can control it without a radio using a cheap simple gadget call a 'servo tester' like this one on e bay.
servo tester
They are usually used to replace the tx/rx when operating servos direct from a power source. They can equally be used drive an ESC. Smile 

My bogie pivots are m4 bolts heavily soldered to a plate made from pcb/paxolin screwed to the aristo/usa trains bogies using their existing screws. I'm sure there's a picture somewhere. scratch 
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Saint-Oblas



Location : Lyon, France

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:04 am

Thanks a lot for those answer. Very interesting solution, this servo tester!
For the ESC, I ordered this one:
http://www.rctimer.com/product_146.html
It is rated 30A. I hope it will be enough. But it's use would be just a few seconds long.

For the boggies,it is the kind of pivots used in most HO models. For this much bigger size, I would have imagine a more complicated solution with a kind of elastic link.
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Saint-Oblas



Location : Lyon, France

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:38 am

I am coming back on the problem of curves handling by three axles loks. I previously favoured the lateral play solution, but now I am somewhat doubting:

Is it compatible with a worm gear?  Does the Baguley chassis have worm gear transmission on all axles? or is the transmission on some axles just by the rods as in the prototype?

My problem is that I will not have rods, so if ther is a problem with worm gears, I see only two solutions:
- have flangeless wheels for the middle axle
- have a non powered middle axle

What is your opinion on this point?
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PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Today at 6:53 am

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