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 Diesel 4

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David Grantham




PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:48 pm

Whats the latest thinking on clutches. Do we need more experience of working without them to see if this strains the engine and pull start or are the advantages of having a clutch immediately worth the extra complexity.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:27 am

Yes David, for me the jury's still out over this. I built a power unit for Van's diesel without the clutch after initially testing the principle on the bench.
It works but there is some more strain, more noise, the meshing needs to be asbolutely spot on and the mountings all round need to be secure and solid with no play.

I am making another almost identical power unit but with a clutch and I will compare their respective performances.

You need to run-in the engine 'light' without connecting anything until it's well loosened up before connecting gears.
With the recent cold weather here I have been frustrated and very restricted with testing.

It's worth noting from the Traxxas website their advice on breaking in and operating. The same would apply to most glow plug engines. Although I've heard that 4 strokes seem to start better than 2 strokes when cold.....

Traxxas do not recommend operating below 45F (7.2C) and say that below 39F (3.8C)
'...nitro engines may be very difficult to start and tune at those extremely cold temperatures...'
Reading that certainly saved one engine from the club hammer fate after it spluttered to start and failed to run correctly after about 2 hours of blistered-finger trying. Neutral

Full article here
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:06 am

Clutches.

There are some genuine complete Kyosho clutches now on e bay with a BIN of 19.99. A bit pricey in my view but you know it's all going to fit and once you see and feel what the correct parts are you can improve and replace later.

Kyosho clutch complete

I've just ordered one and there are 3 left.

Incidently it's the same guy who had the carburettor for sale recently and NOW posts to France!



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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:54 pm

Ah...only 2 clutches left now. Who else bought one then. Question

Also there is some interesting live diesel discussion currently taking place here:
G3 Forum
albeit from a different technical angle. study
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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:02 pm

Guilty m'lord.

Just need to finish the decorating and then I can join the club.


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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:12 pm

Good...So now you have all the necessary parts. No excuse, a diesel for Railexpo. cheers

Actually I was pricing up all the parts I paid for.
Engine=10, carb about 10, clutch about 22. That's still only 42 for a complete brand new engine. That would be difficult to find on the internet.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:13 pm

...or you come and do my decorating and I'll build you a diesel..... Laughing
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:34 pm

Carl Hibbs wrote:
Good...So now you have all the necessary parts. No excuse, a diesel for Railexpo. cheers

Actually I was pricing up all the parts I paid for.
Engine=10, carb about 10, clutch about 22. That's still only 42 for a complete brand new engine. That would be difficult to find on the internet.

Actually one went for 55 on ebay yesterday complete with Carb, Clutch, Exhaust, Pull Start and Air filter, but again I missed it!

_________________
Brian
Brian
also blogging at
www.frenchgardenrailways.com
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:39 pm

This guy has loads of bits on German

Kyosho bits

_________________
Brian
Brian
also blogging at
www.frenchgardenrailways.com
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http://www.frenchgardenrailways.com
Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:52 pm

That's a useful site and cheaper for some bits than the English ones.
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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:08 pm

Carl, you have already been decorated and build excellent models.


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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:22 pm

Not sure about the other but I have indeed been decorated....I have a British Umpire Medal and I am entitled to put the letters after my name......

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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:46 pm

And I thought BEM meant Builds Excellent Models. Doh !
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:50 am

...And then there were none. All the clutches gone.
We'll end up with the biggest collection of Kyosho spares very soon!
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:32 pm

Carl Hibbs wrote:
...And then there were none. All the clutches gone.
We'll end up with the biggest collection of Kyosho spares very soon!

Certainly will Laughing

I'm not so fortunate as you - factoring in shipping (which we must) 2 GX12's complete with Carb/ Air filter / Pull Start and complete clutch have cost me 63 Euros each

I hope these little engines are as good as you say?

_________________
Brian
Brian
also blogging at
www.frenchgardenrailways.com
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http://www.frenchgardenrailways.com
David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:20 pm

Still a pretty good price Brian. An OS equivalent would cost about 145 Euros.
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Tacbob



Location : Harz, Germany

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:39 pm

Hello Carl,

I'm new to this forum. Although I'm reading in the background for a while. I stumpled on "Detritus" and was bitten by the live diesel virus. After that I was looking the www up and down and came across this forum. Really interesting and amazing work and stuff you all did.
Now I started some planing, sketching, thinking, rethinking, ordering parts and calculating for my own diesel loco. But there are some questions (I guess this won't be the last ones).
How does your exhaust drainage work? I've seen you've plugged the drain hole. Do you collect the oil in the silencer? How often do you have to empty it?
For the wooden mufflers, what kind of wood do you use? How do you seal it against the oil?


Lorenz

_________________
Lorenz
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:54 pm

Hello Lorenz and welcome to the forum, ask as many questions as you like.

The exhaust drainage is just a sump in that the oil falls to the bottom, the pressure outlet for the fuel tank is about half way up so no oil goes back into the fuel.
I drain the silencer after every run of about 30 mins and get about 2cc of oil.

I don't use wood anymore as it was difficult to seal against the fuel and oil but it does supress the noise more than metal.

Don't forget to look at the diesel web page.

http://www.cgtrains.com/h4-live-diesel

Which I will update regularly.

Good luck with your project and show us your progress. Very Happy
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Tacbob



Location : Harz, Germany

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:00 pm

Hello Carl,

many thx for your quick reply and your warm welcome. I already looked at the diesel page. Very informative. Although I'm planing a diesel a bit different to yours.

If there is progress I'll show it Very Happy

Lorenz

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Lorenz
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Tacbob



Location : Harz, Germany

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:53 pm

Hello Carl,

how is it working with the permanent glowing? What voltage is needed? Are there different plug types?

_________________
Lorenz
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:28 am

This current model is not permanent glowing but Troy has used a receiver controlled switch that works in parallel to the throttle servo.
When the throttle is at idle the glow plug is energised by an on-board 1.2volt nicad or similar.

Most of the handheld glow plug starters are 1.2v but I also have and use a 2v 5Ah lead acid battery which gives a 'brighter' glow.

I also made an adjustable starter from a component kit that will work off 6 or 12 volts.

There are many different types of glow plug and here is a good reference source to include on the web page.

http://www.scootworks.com/rdrc/gloplugs.html

For our needs here a 'standard' plug is usually sufficient. Hot plugs can help in winter or when the engine temperature is low.

There are also 'anti-flood' plugs which have a small guard (an 'idle bar') around the coil to help prevent it being saturated.
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Tacbob



Location : Harz, Germany

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:54 am

Hello Carl,

Many thanks for your quick reply and the link. I don't think that I'll need higher rev's than a bit over idling speed (like Detritus). So permanently glowing shall be a good way. We'll see.

_________________
Lorenz
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:02 am

I use 'permanent glowing' on the original green monster as the engine never gets hot enough.
Despite what most model shops and 'experts' said I have never had any problem with glow plugs burning out and I use a 2 volt battery.
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Tacbob



Location : Harz, Germany

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:19 am

I'll keep that in mind Smile.

_________________
Lorenz
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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:30 pm

Carl, do you think that helical gears would help quieten the noise you were getting between a clutchless nitro and the BLDC ?

Don't know about availability, in which case the question may be academic.
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Diesel 4   Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:20 pm

David Grantham wrote:
Carl, do you think that helical gears would help quieten the noise you were getting between a clutchless nitro and the BLDC ?

Don't know about availability, in which case the question may be academic.

Helical gears are available from L'Octant (sorry no web page- catalogue only) but a bit pricey affraid

_________________
Brian
Brian
also blogging at
www.frenchgardenrailways.com
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http://www.frenchgardenrailways.com
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