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 Roy Wood Models

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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Roy Wood Models   Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:18 pm

From the Roy Wood Models website

""""
Pilgrim is an exciting project under development.
It uses a four stroke engine to drive a generator. The output from the generator is used to drive a traction motor. The speed of the four stroke engine and the traction motor speeds are radio controlled.
When fully developed Pilgrim will be available as a complete ready-to-run locomotive or as a drop-in power unit to fit in the chassis of your choice. It is perfectly suitable for 16mm but, being relatively bulky, it is also suitable for Gauges 1 & 3.
The photos below give a general idea of the unit and is sitting on a simple 4 wheel test chassis.
Photos will be posted shortly.
""""

Don't stop breathing.
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:23 pm

Do you have a link David?

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Brian
Brian
also blogging at
www.frenchgardenrailways.com
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Sparkeswood



Location : Kent,England

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:31 pm

No point in a link.David's post is all the info available.
The drop in power unit is interesting.
These things are quite fickle.I'm looking forward to the rest of the information and the photos.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:57 pm

Here is the link to RWM more for the purposes of live steam rather than diesel.

http://www.roywoodmodels.co.uk/

As Troy said there is no more information on the website yet than David posted.

It seems he has taken over from PPS steam models which were were quite a good distributor of Accucraft and all things live steam and suddenly stopped trading.

The Pilgrim diesel project I presume is taken from Barry Reeves original machines.
We shall wait and see...but I think we have been there and done most of it.

At Railexpo we had a good 5 or 6 hours of cumulative, almost faultless running time with the 'simple' 2 strokes. So I'm not looking for anything more.

There was someone else trying to market live diesel on here a while back ...... from India, PLine models......???

Personally I can see absolutely no advantage with a 4 stroke engine. And really a dynamo for generating electricity is now 'tractor' technology.
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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Wed Dec 05, 2012 10:57 pm

I dont think there are many advantages with a 4 stroke and the success at RailExpo of the pull starts was very impressive.

However some like a challenge and that can be at least as satisfying as replicating proven methodlogy and others even like "tractors".

Nevertheless for more "normal" persons 2 stroke/brushless is the proven path.
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KleineDicke



Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:09 pm

The only advantage I could think of is a 4 stroke doesn't burn oil with its fuel, so it would be cleaner, i.e. no oil residue all over the place from the exhaust. They are also considerably more complex.

_________________
Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)
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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:49 pm

Bill, my OS30 fourstroke uses the same fuel as my twostroke fuel and burns oil, unless I have been using the wrong stuff. I know nothing about these engines so please feel free to comment.

Only advantages I can think off are less noise/lower revs/better sound and the challenge of doing it but if you can't get it to work then the advantages are
quiet(te) irelevent.
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KleineDicke



Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:38 pm

Maybe it's different with micro-engines, but "normal" 4-stroke engines do not burn oil-fuel mixtures (unless the rings are shot Very Happy). I'm wondering how the bottom end (crankshaft, etc.) gets lubricated; on a typical 2 stroke the fuel mixture is fed via the crankcase which provides the lubrication. My curiosity is piqued (there goes the engineer in me again....)

_________________
Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)
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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:03 pm

Bill, crankshaft gets lubricated with the oil in the fuel.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:12 pm

KleineDicke wrote:
....on a typical 2 stroke the fuel mixture is fed via the crankcase which provides the lubrication.

Same for typical model 4 strokes. Just the cycle that's different really.

I read a while back about some much larger 4 stroke glo plug engines (Kavan for example) with a sump and lubricating system but they are rare and huge.

Have a look here.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=822958f265df33c5dc1a2d06e7c1f7da&t=1355674
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antonr91



Location : south-east England

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:40 pm

while you guys are on the tipic of fuels, Carl, i see that when you were making diesel number 2, it looks as if you are using the red colour aero fuel? as opposed to the yellow colour car stuff, like we had in France? Does the red stuff work on the car engines? as i remember trying to run an aero engine on the car stuff before and it wouldnt fire very well?
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BarryReeves



Location : UK

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:46 pm

Hello all

I am Barry Reeves who started Pilgrim Loco works in 2000. I sold it to Dave Clark and he had all the info, but decided to reinvent the wheel. Now he has sold it on to Roy Wood and it seems another reinvention is in the pipeline under very low pressure.

4 stroke engines run at very slow speeds compared to a 2 stroke and are far quiter. Pull start is ok once the engine is set up and run in a little. You only need a cheap simple generator and the best traction motors you can get. Maxon for example with ABC Pilgrim Special 30:1 gearboxes.

I sold all mine due to a marriage failure and the need to live in a flat for 5 years. I now have a house and will be using my last engine in a few years to build my last Diesel Electric.

I have a steam electric awaiting finishing but that is another bundle of fun entirely.

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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:47 pm

I am not aware that any current 4 stroke pull start nitro engines are available.
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BarryReeves



Location : UK

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:56 am

I used OS FS 26 engines. FS = four stroke and 26 = 0.26 Cu ins capacity. I think this design has become the FS 30, ie slightly bigger capacity.

A google should find a supplier. I forget who I bought mine from but a model car racing shop would be a good place to start.

How is your project going. Where are you? I am in Leicester.
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Tacbob



Location : Harz, Germany

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:54 am

Look at this fellow. He uses a FS 26 with pull starter for his loco FS 26

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Lorenz
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:12 pm

Tacbob wrote:
Look at this fellow. He uses a FS 26 with pull starter for his loco FS 26

Interesting project, 1:12 scale on 45mm, a 4 stroke with indeed a pull start plus mechanical transmission which I'm scrutinising carefully!
He makes the engine start and run well. Very Happy

It is tempting to go that challenging route and perhaps with people's combined knowledge and experience here, we will see a few machines taking to the rails.

Just need to find someone in France selling 4 stroke engines for 10 euros each!

Barry - glad you're back and active with diesels again. What do you mean by 'a cheap simple generator' ?
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Tacbob



Location : Harz, Germany

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:20 pm

Carl Hibbs wrote:


Interesting project, 1:12 scale on 45mm, a 4 stroke with indeed a pull start plus mechanical transmission which I'm scrutinising carefully!
He makes the engine start and run well. Very Happy

But there is no reverse gear box at the moment. BTW Look at his steam diesel loco too. Got a nice sound.

.....

Just need to find someone in France selling 4 stroke engines for 10 euros each!

That would be a really good price Wink

_________________
Lorenz
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:23 pm

...There are 2 strokes available at this price.... Laughing
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Tacbob



Location : Harz, Germany

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:25 pm

Really? Wow that's cheap. Which ones? Kyosho?

_________________
Lorenz
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BarryReeves



Location : UK

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:30 pm

Carl

Thanks. A cheap generator can be a big strong Expo can motor. The bigger the better.

2 stroke motors a very very very fast running, an FS26 will idle at 2300 and give all you need at 2600 rpm. They are dear but one pays for what one gets.

I spent a year, 1999, working all this out so there is no need to go there again. I got my diesels, I made 11 and sold them all, to be very quite. At 1 metre distance with the engine running on idle a normal conversation could be had. A 2 stroke would rival the noise of a 1950 era UP 1950 Gas Turbine.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:15 pm

For generators you mean straight DC motors. We have moved on quite a bit by using highly efficient BLDC 3 phase motors which are well documented on the webpage and in many threads.

Having said that I believe there is still a place for brushed DC motors (Yes, I know I mentioned tractor technology.... tongue ) especially as a combined starter.

The torpedo type 850 is also a good choice

The noise is very subjective. Some people detest it in whatever form 4 or 2 stroke. Personally I don't care as I live in the country and the tractors make more noise. Laughing
But I appreciate that not everyone can allow that in a suburban garden especially.

Silicon tube is excellent at suppressing the noise but making a good silencer unit out of it is another project. You can almost completely silence an engine this way and there is vid on You tube somewhere of a run with a long length fitted.

You can (by cheating) get 2 strokes to idle below 2,000 rpm by running very rich under load and by keeping the glow plug energised which doesn't shorten the life of it.

I shall be interested to what developments happen this year with live diesels and welcome any more information and contributions.



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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:18 pm

I dont understand this talk about 4 stroke pull starts. I have been through the catalogues and cannot find such a beast. The OS26 has been superceded as the OS30 but is not available as a pull start. Therefore this parrot is dead.

If someone believes the parrot is alive please let me know, even if it isn't an OS Norwegian Blue.
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Tacbob



Location : Harz, Germany

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:36 pm

I dont know if this would fit but probably you'll need one of this.

pull start

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Lorenz
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:37 pm

David Grantham wrote:
it isn't an OS Norwegian Blue.
Laughing

Yes David, I agree with you as I have looked too. A 4 stroke with a pull start is a rare bird.
But useful if found for you and others.

I imagine they would be difficult to start from new but as Barry says after running in they would be ok as the chap in the vid shows.


That's an idea Lorenz. Could one after fit a pull start mechanism to a 'standard' 4 stroke aero type engine....?
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Tacbob



Location : Harz, Germany

PostSubject: Re: Roy Wood Models   Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:43 pm

Carl Hibbs wrote:

Laughing


....

That's an idea Lorenz. Could one after fit a pull start mechanism to a 'standard' 4 stroke aero type engine....?

If the screw holes and the dia of the free wheel fits probably. I think this one is similar to the pull starter of my engine (it's a spare part). So I could messure when I'll dismantle it someday.

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Lorenz
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