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 Live Steam Info wanted

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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Live Steam Info wanted   Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:55 pm

After seeing brians excitement at receiving his first steamer and listening to carl, I am tempted to dip my toe in the water. I cant spend a lot but I have had a look at some of the models available for under 600 euros and some of them seem to be of different scales to 1/22.5. I really want something that looks french and wont be out of place on my line (which is getting close to running on ). I would also like to be able to have R/C.. final question; will live steam satisfy my need for the smell of old railway engines (not kinky but thats what i miss most about the real ones!)

mikey
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:41 pm

Mikey....

It's a shame you can't get to see, smell and touch in the flesh so to speak.
I'm afraid that's what happened to Brian.

If you wanted to a 'play before you pay' for a weekend you would be welcome here.

Brian has followed a well trooden path with Edrig. A cheap entry level engine from Accucraft.
It's reliable, easy to use, looks like a real engine with proper cylinders and will give years of pleasure if half reasonably cared for.

I wouldn't worry too much about the quoted scale for these generic locos. they all look pretty similarly sized when they're in the garden.

I have a Caradoc which is essentially the same as Edrig.
This year I intend to 'French it up' a bit with the addition of some continental parts.

The basic Edrig costs around 450 and you can add 150 for (single channel) fitted RC.

I would advise strongly playing with it in manual mode for a while. This I find gives people skills and experience that you don't get with using an RC loco first. You can easily fit custom RC yourself later and cheaper.

There are other alternatives than Accucraft such as Regner. You can get a small 'ozzi' cylinder geared loco for under 500.
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:30 pm

Better still Mikey, the Edrig is 405 from John at Track Shack right now!

Carl is right you learn more every day you play with these things.

There is a skill involved in setting up but that's the attraction - tuning the gas/ water pressure and steam regulator to pull the train you've set up is all part of the fun.

I'm getting about 25 mins running out of a tank full of gas and it takes about 5 mins to get up steam. Just about the right time for a glass of claret.

Happy steaming

Brian
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:58 pm

That's an attractive proposition Brian.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Track Shack connected to Dragon G scale albeit in Manx land.......and doesn't one get 5% discount with Dragon G scale if you're good boy on GSM....?

What colour is your Edrig BTW ?
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Guest



PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:45 pm

Quote :
and doesn't one get 5% discount with Dragon G scale if you're good boy on GSM


No ... just 2.5% .... but G Scale Direct is far cheaper anyway ... check prices out like for like ....

http://www.gscaledirect.com/epages/es114996.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es114996_shop

Doesn't show quite as much on the site but will get anything you want usually at 7.5% cheaper than Dragon G Scale.

study
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:28 pm

I've just bought an Accucraft Edrig power plant - An Edrig without the body for 325 on e bay. New in box and never steamed.
Not a fantastic bargain but they're normally about 370 RRP in the shops when and if you can get one.
I only saw it by chance it about an hour ago.

I shall make up a very simple body in brass for it later.

I hope no-one else here was bidding on it. There were 15 bids plus mine and I waited until the last minute. Laughing
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:42 pm

carl hibbs wrote:
I've just bought an Accucraft Edrig power plant - An Edrig without the body for 325 on e bay. New in box and never steamed.
Not a fantastic bargain but they're normally about 370 RRP in the shops when and if you can get one.
I only saw it by chance it about an hour ago.

I shall make up a very simple body in brass for it later.

I hope no-one else here was bidding on it. There were 15 bids plus mine and I waited until the last minute. Laughing

That's a good price as track Shack are taking reservatio orders at 333

B
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:44 pm

carl hibbs wrote:
That's an attractive proposition Brian.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Track Shack connected to Dragon G scale albeit in Manx land.......and doesn't one get 5% discount with Dragon G scale if you're good boy on GSM....?

What colour is your Edrig BTW ?

My Edrig is LMS Maroon


Last edited by GWhizz on Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:46 pm

carl hibbs wrote:
That's an attractive proposition Brian.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Track Shack connected to Dragon G scale albeit in Manx land.......and doesn't one get 5% discount with Dragon G scale if you're good boy on GSM....?

What colour is your Edrig BTW ?

Dragon and Track Shack are different companies and I don't think you'll get a discount? Believe me I tried !

B
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:47 pm

BTW John (of Track Shack) is Sealion on GSM .
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:53 pm

I've been playing some more this afternoon and am so taken with the Steamy side that I've listed a few LGB bits and bobs on Ebay in order to buy a few enhancements and r/c for the Edrig.

Brian from the very "steamy" Charente
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:55 pm

mikeyh wrote:
After seeing brians excitement at receiving his first steamer and listening to carl, I am tempted to dip my toe in the water. I cant spend a lot but I have had a look at some of the models available for under 600 euros and some of them seem to be of different scales to 1/22.5. I really want something that looks french and wont be out of place on my line (which is getting close to running on ). I would also like to be able to have R/C.. final question; will live steam satisfy my need for the smell of old railway engines (not kinky but thats what i miss most about the real ones!)

mikey

Hi Mikey

You're not that far away! Come on over and have a play !

Brian
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:49 am

GWhizz wrote:
I've been playing some more this afternoon and am so taken with the Steamy side that I've listed a few LGB bits and bobs on Ebay in order to buy a few enhancements and r/c for the Edrig.

Brian from the very "steamy" Charente


cheers

I wonder how long it will be before you start talking about your next locomotive?

lol!

I think the Bangham resonator whistle is the way to go from DJB engineering,
I'm going to order one for my skeleton Edrig.

DJB

There are a few goodies at this place to,
Milton Loco Works
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:52 am

I see Track - Shack - now sold out of manual Edrig's ??

Is the Bangham resonator the standard whistle kit DJB sell for the Edrig?
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:18 am

The code is ACCED which is a special complete kit for the Edrig (and similar) locos at 80.

There was an article about fitting one to a Caradoc on GSM.
Fit a whistle


The only thing there is that he has fitted the servo for the whistle is behind the burner. I hope he never has a block burner jet. It will mean a lot of dismantling.

I think you could use half a throw on the direction servo for the whistle.

You could buy a Regner whistle for a lot less (les than half the cost) but you would need to adapt some fittings to fit the Accucraft manifolds. The Bangham whistles sound better as well.
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:52 am

I think the DJB Whistle kit is the way to go - looks like a simple DIY fit.

I see, though out of stock, Milton sell a replacement burner. My only criticism of the loco so far is burner noise, are there other alternatives - I've read a huge thread on GSM on the subject, but worry about extending gas burn - chance of boiler running dry.

Have you modded your Caradoc burner?

The Milton water fill valve and top up system looks good. I think it was the system you were using in Paris?
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:41 pm

A couple of pics of Edrig in action on my "in barn" test layout ...





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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:18 pm

Anyone wishing to enhance live steam performance be very careful.

Accucraft engines as we know are made in China and there are some reservations about Chinese quality. In my view they are fine.
Yes the burner is a little (deliberately*) noisy and not that efficient. There are a few other little, easily-lived-with quirks too.

You can spend a lot of money upgrading burners, gas valves, pistons/cylinders etc and end up with top quality super machine. All these upgrades are made by qualified and approved engineers.

On GSM and other forums there are a few knowledgeable people and some well meaning amateurs who have added their own home engineered inhancements and publicly shared their 'proud achievements'.
There are also some stupid, very stupid self indulging idiots. Adding (flame) heating to gas tanks to maintain pressure was one recent pile of dangerous nonsense I saw.

Mods1

Mods2

There is a common name on both threads!

If one starts oneself or following their 'advice' messing about and altering burners, valves etc., you are taking a serious risk.

Accucraft engines are designed to run on a full filling of boiler and a full filling of gas.
The gas is safely designed to run out before the water in all circumstances following the instructions.

A more efficient burner increase gas time. Edrig has no water level indicator.....!
You can't hear* if the burner is alight or not. A very expensive distorted pile of brass and copper at best.

These engines have boiler certificates and guarantees which are rendered invalid even for the smallest unapproved modification.
Leave well alone unless you use approved parts and you have some knowledge and experience.

A water fill system (just a simple non-return or 'eynots' valve). Mine was from Mike Ousby (ACME) who is the approved Accucarft UK repair agent.

If anyone does modify their engine then keep it away from me! I've seen enough shrapnel wounds thanks.

I won't allow any home/unapproved modified machines on my portable layout at exhibitions.
The physical consequencies let alone the legal implications are too horrific to think about.


Nice pics Brian.....I like the marroon colour best but why is there electric cable connecting it.... Shocked
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:10 pm

carl hibbs wrote:


Nice pics Brian.....I like the marroon colour best but why is there electric cable connecting it.... Shocked

Oh didn't I tell you - I've got the latest 240 volt Edrig - absolutely no noisy gas burners with this model Razz Razz Razz

Seriously, I take on board your comments about modifications I'd already appreciated the gas / water level factor but being able to hear the burner is obviously essential unless you want to be peering in the smokebox every few seconds.

At the moment my mods (in time) will be in order

1. radio control (2 channel will work fine) using the idea of an extra half throw in either direction to operate a whistle

2. a whistle

3. a cab with hinged roof for access - which reminds me, is there an online supplier of small pieces of sheet brass in France??

Just off to play some more.

Cheers Brian
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:29 pm

excellent and stupid advice in those links Carl. some people are beyond belief! however i am slightly confused as to why gas is used as the fuel. i can understand that its faster to light etc but what other disadvantages are there to meths or even coal-firing?

mikey
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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:30 pm

Yup there are certainly some stupid , uninformed folk out there, glad we can be sensible and not take nasty risks on this forum. Don' suppose you wanna know about my safety valve spanner I made then.

Now then Mr Gwhizz, would you mind explaining to a "well meaning ammeter" how come you steam reg is bent downwards, has somebody had a little tumble that they are not telling about.

Now wheres me dolls house got to ?
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:55 pm

pjti wrote:


Now then Mr Gwhizz, would you mind explaining to a "well meaning ammeter" how come you steam reg is bent downwards, has somebody had a little tumble that they are not telling about.


Now you've got me worried, that's how it came out of the box, brand new. No signs of bending looks like it was built that way!

If it's not meant to be that way - I'll be talking to Track Shack in the morning No
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:01 pm

mikeyh wrote:
excellent and stupid advice in those links Carl. some people are beyond belief! however i am slightly confused as to why gas is used as the fuel. i can understand that its faster to light etc but what other disadvantages are there to meths or even coal-firing?

mikey

I love the idea of coal - ACME/DJB (see the link in Carl's earlier post) will convert your Accucraft to coal fired for a fee!

Gas is real convenient and quick - 5 mins to get up steam.

No comment on meths - stopped drinking the stuff in favour of Absinthe Laughing
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:04 pm

That does look at a bit of an angle.....you're right Patrick. I can't believe it would bend that way. Maybe it's just the photo.

As for brass and other modelling materials Brian my preferred supplier in France is l'Octant.
You would need a chunky piece of brass for a cab roof.
I'll have a look and see what I might have spare....

Mikey...coal firing is the ultimate for me and one day like Tag Gorton I will go that way. But it is an art and science all of it's own.
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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: Live Steam Info wanted   Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:04 pm

Dunno , but mine ended up that shape after it took a roll. It still is that shape so don't worry too much it will work fine when I finish all my MODIFICATIONS -AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh - and find the bits I took off.

THAT WORD !!!!! What a Face


BTW If it is a bit crooked I wouldn't suggest you try to bend it straight as it could cause a stress fracture of one of the two joins.


Last edited by pjti on Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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