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 Live steam question

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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Live steam question   Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:42 pm

I havent got any raised sections of track, but i am building a workbench alongside the layout. Is it possible to fire a live steamer up while its resting on a sort of frame and then transfer it to the track (obviously wearing padded gloves!)?

mikey
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:27 pm

Yes it is perfectly possible Mikey but I would talk to Patrick first about about moving live steam engines whilst hot. Shocked

Certainly some sort of cradle would be possible but there is always a risk of dropping.

It is better if you can have a steam up area connected to your railway. Then you can run directly out onto the mainline as soon as it's boiling. It looks so much better too.

Or if you can't raise the track then lower the ground. Dig a small pit that you step down into and at waist high to the track. Many people do that.
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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:55 pm

I can see where you're coming from Mikey and heavy gloves is deffo needed. Trouble is thick gloves lead to no feeling and there aren't many bits that you can actually pick up an engine by. Very easy to pick up by the rods or a bit lopsided and then a tumble might happen. The thing I always think about and the reason I don't move my Edrig once it's hot is the safety would blow right in yer face also anything coming from the chimney is directed that way.


Thats just my thoughts and as always I bow to anyone who can tell me better.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:53 pm

pjti wrote:
..... The thing I always think about and the reason I don't move my Edrig once it's hot is the safety would blow right in yer face also anything coming from the chimney is directed that way.

That's something that I didn't think of.

Sound advice Patrick.

And anyone who has had 60psi of steam in their eye knows about it.

And just imagine if you took certain numpties' advice and 'cranked up the safety' to say 100psi which certain people suggested a model boiler would take easily.......... affraid
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:25 am

thanks for tha advice! We have a sort of ditch running along the back of the house, about ten feet from the layout. It will be worth running a siding to that so it will be at waist height.

mikey
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:27 am

This is the side of the house where the railway is;



I could use the ditch (with a bit of re-organisation) to enable me to have a waist high area for steaming up.
Now i dont want to be contentious (just need an explanation) but I've been looking at loads of garden railways that use live steam and a lot are just at ground level. If i had a preparation area at waist height,for initial fuelling etc and then placed the loco on the track and lit up;whats against that? when the loco runs out of gas or water, what happens then? Do you pick it up (hot) and return it to the steaming up area, or do you refuel at ground level? Besides the extra work neccessary (not a lot admittedly) I just dont like raised trackbeds.

mikey
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:25 pm

It's your railway Mikey. There is no right or wrong to these things really.

If you want to do everything at ground level that's fine. But to be honest for me it's a strain on the old muscles and joints bending down repeatedly and I'm a mere slip of a 51 year old. Sad

Yes, you could do all your prep at waist height on a bench and then put it down cold on he ground for lighting but you still may have to bend right down with your head nearly at loco level to check and see water levels, leaks, flame burning correctly etc.

It all about what is comfortable. I find that even just a foot high is better than on the ground and means you can kneel or crouch rather lay on the ground to inspect the locomotive.

Preparing an already warm engine is usually less work than a cold one so sometimes I do refuel at ground level but usually there is enough steam after the gas runs out to make it back up to the 'shed'.

You have got lots of lovely space. Rolling Eyes
I'd have a fully fitted multi track engine shed on the side of that wall by now. drunken
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:29 pm

thanks Carl. basically i have to weigh the extra cost in track and work against the onset of arthritis!!

Mikey
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:47 pm

After re-reading your last Carl, you have given me an idea! i was looking at making another passing loop for a steam area, but you are right; i could build a 'shed' mounted on the wall with a siding leading onto the track. further investigations will follow!!

mikey
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:51 am

Have a thought to maybe construct one of these 'plaques tournant' Then I can go straight onto the line from the 'ditch';


copyright as shown (educational only)

what do you think?

mikey
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:36 pm

Very typically French Mikey.
Yes I would include one.
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:33 pm

Love it! Another great idea!

I seem to remember Carl has a mini (wooden?) one on his indoor layout for steaming up ???

I was toying with the idea of a turntable myself, made from the revolving unit from a kitchen cupboard. We have one left over from when I fitted the kitchen. It's 600mm diameter and just about long enough for my Mallet even!

Should have gone in my sidings area - so much for planning ahead !

Cheers B

BTW apalling wet and cold weather today, so haven't touched CFHC !
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:37 pm

May I ambush this thread with another steamy question?

Piston automatic draincocks! I see they've been fitted on a Taliesin in this months Garden Rail.

What advantages do they confer ???? Are they worth the bother???
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:43 pm

Good question Brian. i only wish i knew what it meant!!!

mikey (with a lot to learn!!)
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:17 pm

Here's my steam-up area which is off a long part double track branch from the main circuit through the shed.
There are two turnatables. One a simple 45cm and the other a 60cm crossover with track grooves routed out of MDF (yes MDF outside...) and screwed to a rotating base on small roller castors rather like a 'lazy susan'.









The two road flap folds down to allow more visitor space and the area doubles as a dining place occassionally.

Note that this is in a surburban garden and my neighbours house (bedroom) wall forms the boundary.
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Paul Stainz Holt



Location : North Wales

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:29 pm

Carl

That set up - I like. Big thumbs up.

_________________
Excellent Austrian narrow gauge in North Wales.

Website http://linzgstadtbahn.webs.com/
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:39 pm

GWhizz wrote:
May I ambush this thread with another steamy question?

Piston automatic draincocks! I see they've been fitted on a Taliesin in this months Garden Rail.

What advantages do they confer ???? Are they worth the bother???

They look good squirting out steam from below the cylinders like the real thing.
I have them on my Chiemseebahn engine.
You may have seen it running at rail expo Brian. It sounds just like Ivor the engine. 'p-i-s-h-t-i-c-o-u-f-f'.

Good gimmick really but can waste a lot of steam. Acme engineering make drain cocks for Edrigs but of course you have to drill and tap the cylinders. A brave man to do that.

Most Regners come with them as standard now.
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:04 am

wow Carl. your 'steam up' area is bril! It caters for just about every combination!!

Mikey
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:50 am

Carl did you route the grooves and then put rails in, or just the grooves with the engine running on the wood?

mikey
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:09 am

Thanks chaps but it wasn't built as a showpiece as such.
We only have 300 sq metres of enclosed suburban garden so maximising space was a real priority. Besides that it is important for me to have a covered area where a few people can discuss and mess about with their steam locomotives aside from the main garden and grassed area and not intrude on other domestic activities too much.

As the garden railway scene in France is gradually growing especially around Paris we get quite a few visitors in the slightly less inclement months and it's nice to be able say 'don't worry if it rains we can still run trains'.

You have a great place against that wall of yours Mikey. That's just begging to be covered.....but then you southern boys don't need to worry about things like rain. Laughing

Here's a couple of recent visitors chez moi.



Ongoing Roundhouse and Regner kit builds.

And this is the sort of rif raf I have visiting from time to time. Cool

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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:14 am

mikeyh wrote:
Carl did you route the grooves and then put rails in, or just the grooves with the engine running on the wood?

mikey

Just the grooves and the wheels run in the wood. I painted the edges with metallic paint.
I actually used a biscuit joint cutter rather than a router. It is easier to do straight lines and the 4mm blade was just right for the flangeways.
I've done loads of shelves like that too.

MDF soaked and well treated will last in a sheltered garden no problem and the wood is hard and doesn't expand and contract like ply.
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:25 pm

Hi Carl

I just love that set up, so tidy, I daren't let Caroline see it, she'll expect me to keep mine that way!

How did you achieve the curved section elevated track ??

That's exactly what I'm wanting to do to complete my high level circuit.

B
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:28 pm

carl hibbs wrote:
.....but then you southern boys don't need to worry about things like rain. Laughing

Absolutely true Carl !

But sometimes when our sunshine turns liquid, it's slightly on the heavy side with a good deal of lightning mixed in !!!
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Live steam question   Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:39 pm

GWhizz wrote:
Hi Carl

I just love that set up, so tidy, I daren't let Caroline see it, she'll expect me to keep mine that way!

How did you achieve the curved section elevated track ??

That's exactly what I'm wanting to do to complete my high level circuit.

B

Sorry I don't have any construction photos but it is a 1.2mtr radius curve on a 1:50 ramp.

The base is concrete, cast using polystyrene as a mould and the supports are cut, treated 70mm sq fence posts screwed with brackets to the curved concrete base. The trackbed is 18 mm exterior ply.
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