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 First steaming of my new lawley

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fm12



Location : 87210 Haute Vienne, France

PostSubject: First steaming of my new lawley   Mon May 04, 2009 5:19 pm

Steamed her twice yesterday and just steamed up again this afternoon.
Bearing in mind its a new engine,I`ve kept the pressure or tried to keep it at 20lbs,its ran on the rollers ok.My first steam up I got 14 minutes,my second 17 minutes and today it was 13 minutes running time.
I`m hoping that with a bit of practice and with a small rake of trucks behind her,I will be able to manage on average at least 15 minutes.

Just spent 30 minutes trying to upload a couple of pics but to no avail.


Van with a pc about to fly out of the attic window
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Mon May 04, 2009 5:24 pm

My imagination is working overtime, keep trying with the pics!!

Mikey
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fm12



Location : 87210 Haute Vienne, France

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Mon May 04, 2009 5:48 pm

Mikey
I`m hopeless with pcs,just tried again and ended up on a site asking me if I want a english language course.
I`ll post over on GSM
I can upload pics on there

Van with the window open (glass is expensive in France)
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Mon May 04, 2009 6:15 pm

Mikey have PM'd you

Please give me a buzz to tie up a day when Van is coming over!

Cheers Brian
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Mon May 04, 2009 6:32 pm

Send me the pics by e mail and I will host them and post them.
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fm12



Location : 87210 Haute Vienne, France

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Mon May 04, 2009 6:56 pm

thanks Carl pics on way.
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fm12



Location : 87210 Haute Vienne, France

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Mon May 04, 2009 7:10 pm

OK Carl I give up cannot send the pics via a pm.need your email addy


Embarassed
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Mon May 04, 2009 7:12 pm

No problem Van...The image hosting (servimg) is playing up a bit today.

I see you got a typical first response on GSM. silent

I would say that you should be getting a good 20 mins run with a full fill of gas water and oil on a flat circuit with a moderate load say 4 LGB type 2 axle wagons or similar. This with no wind and on warm day.

When it's run in but really after no more than 5 or so good runs you may get a bit more.

I can get 30 mins out of a well worn Caradoc under similar conditions.
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fm12



Location : 87210 Haute Vienne, France

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Mon May 04, 2009 7:15 pm

Mikey
Thanks for the info regarding pics,but I will pass on that for the moment.I`ve already locked the wifes pc,I`m on pc watch one false error and I`m barred.
Just posted on GSM under new lawley theres a pic on there.

Van.

ps see you at Brians on Friday
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fm12



Location : 87210 Haute Vienne, France

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Mon May 04, 2009 7:17 pm

Thanks Carl.
Thats probaly why I could not upload.
I`ll pop over and have a look


Van
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Wed May 06, 2009 11:11 am

What happened to the photos Van...?

I can still host and post if you wish or try 'servimg' it's working ok now.

We would like to see some more of your Lawley please.

I think you should be getting a bit more steam time from it.
Tell us what you are doing and what the conditions are. There may be something to improve or correct.

I see the thread on GSM was spoilt with some (not all) stupid comments...

quote...'it's so big he has his own post box' strangely referring to a distant red telephone box in your garden.... geek
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fm12



Location : 87210 Haute Vienne, France

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Wed May 06, 2009 9:39 pm

Hi Carl
The telephone box is a story on its own.
Steamed up the lawley today three times,but still fairly short running times,ie two at 13 minutes and one at 14 minutes.On the second roller run I thought that I might not be getting enough gas in the tank,so had a longer gas fill but the tank must have been full because the loco was covered in ice from the overflowing gas.I`ve two gas canisters here,different makes but both for my single gas ring(tea in laybys)they are both butane with added propane and both produced/made in Korea.I`m wondering if camping gas is a different calorific value against lighter fuel which I assume is what most people use.
Anyway this Friday I`m away to Brians to test the lawley on Brian`s track and to receive some expert tution.Mikeys going to be there so I`ll take the camera and if I don`t manage to work out this picture lark I`ll forward them on to you Carl.



Van and his Chinese lawley powered by Korean gas
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Thu May 07, 2009 5:32 am

Van

I'm currently using a Calor gas branded 30% Propane 70% Butane mix sold here for "blow torches". I've used a couple of different brands - Tamar and Brico Depot's own (can't remember the name). They've all performed the same , so long as I remembered to shake the can first to mix the gases!

I wouldn't worry if you're getting shorter runs to start with, I imagine you wont be getting the loco "run in" so well on rollers as you might on a track pulling a load?

Can't wait til tomorrow to see!

BTW don't expect expert advice I've only had my Edrig (first live steamer) since March!

bon journee

Brian
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Thu May 07, 2009 5:35 am

Van

I certainly can help on the picture hosting lark, when you come over.

It took me about a week of attempts to crack it, as Carl will attest!

B
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Thu May 07, 2009 7:13 am

You chaps with Accucraft locos. I would strongly recommend you use butane only (not a mixture with propane) as stipulated by Accucraft themselves.

Ah yes...I know there are experts on the 'other channel' who will say it's ok.
But, these tanks and valves are made in China and tested to a certain pressure. The use of propane increases the pressure in the tank.
The gas tanks on the Garrett were recalled partly because of this.

Also Propane and Butane have different calorific values and thus burn differently.

You can buy an adaptor from Regner, part no. 50834 price 5.65
P52 in their catalogue.
Regner catalogue

This will allow you to use the small 190g/360ml butane gas canisters for picnic stoves/lamps etc. These can be bought for less than 1
You will need to buy a stove or lamp to get the casing and tap. Carrefour sell cheap ones from 9.50 in France.
These represent a big saving over the 350g tall canisters which you can usually only buy as a 70/30 mixture and cost around 5.
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fm12



Location : 87210 Haute Vienne, France

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Thu May 07, 2009 9:21 am

First must qualify my last post,litter is my pet hate and when ever you see used tea bags in laybys you can bet your last metal wheel set,that a english lorry driver as passed through.ITS NOT ME. rant over.

Brian experience with your edrig makes you (in my eyes anyway) a expert of all things accucraft.Looking forward to tomorrow.

Carl,I`m down in Bellac this afternoon will call in Carrefour and see if I can sort out some butane.I`m sure butane only will prolong running time.I can`t wait for those crisp winter mornings to go steaming though,then i`m sure a butane/propane mix will be essential.


Can you imagine -12c cold frosty mornings,steaming up, hot coffee and bacon buttys. FANTASTIC what dreams are made of Very Happy Very Happy
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Thu May 07, 2009 9:37 am

Van said Can you imagine -12c cold frosty mornings,steaming up, hot coffee and bacon buttys. FANTASTIC what dreams are made of

I'm with you on that one Van!! Although a summers evening with a glass of wine or a G
and T or a Pastis (take your pick) comes a close second!

Mikey
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Thu May 07, 2009 7:59 pm

carl hibbs wrote:
You chaps with Accucraft locos. I would strongly recommend you use butane only (not a mixture with propane) as stipulated by Accucraft themselves.

Ah yes...I know there are experts on the 'other channel' who will say it's ok.
But, these tanks and valves are made in China and tested to a certain pressure. The use of propane increases the pressure in the tank.
The gas tanks on the Garrett were recalled partly because of this.

Also Propane and Butane have different calorific values and thus burn differently.

You can buy an adaptor from Regner, part no. 50834 price 5.65
P52 in their catalogue.
Regner catalogue

This will allow you to use the small 190g/360ml butane gas canisters for picnic stoves/lamps etc. These can be bought for less than 1
You will need to buy a stove or lamp to get the casing and tap. Carrefour sell cheap ones from 9.50 in France.
These represent a big saving over the 350g tall canisters which you can usually only buy as a 70/30 mixture and cost around 5.

Well that's all news to me, Carl?

I was simply following the instructions of the guy who sold me the loco - JOHN BOYES at TRACK SHACK ?????????????

It sounds as though a Propane mix would invalidate the warranty???? What's going on ???????

Why does he sell an adapter for the 350g tall canisters when you buy the loco?????

Confused again!

B
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Thu May 07, 2009 8:21 pm

He sells the adaptor for 350g cannisters because it is possible to buy these as butane only but rare to find them in the normal shops. Mostly 350g cannisters are available only as butane/propane 70/30 mix or even 60/40 mix. You can order them (100% butane) from Leroy Merlin or Mr Brico whatever DIY shop but last time I asked they were over 6 each....

Roundhouse also supply this same adapter and recommend only butane although their tanks will accept (and they agree) to using a low mix.

Sometimes I do wonder at certain people's advice and you are quite right to be confused.

Propane is stored at higher pressures than butane hence the warning.

However in reality butane is pretty near useless at temperatures below freezing so cold Winter steamups with Accucraft machines are difficult.
Unofficially (and yes it could invalidate warranty) a little propane mix in winter is used with care.

I am going to place an order with Regner for some bits very soon (no not another steam loco....) and I will order a gas filler adaptor as mentioned in my earlier post.

If anyone else wants this adaptor too I will happily order several and pass them on to you at cost. Saves ordering individually.

They are also available from Ralph Reppingen and Hermann Echtdampf

I am very surprised that this adaptor to fit the cheap 190g butane stove/lamp cannisters is not available through Accucraft or their repair/service/accessory outlets. Idea

These 190g cannisters are available in a variety of flavours. Pure Butane and various mixes and some self-sealing.

And.... despite what some people say on GSM I have found that cheap butane (from Korea and other non descript corners of the globe) IS different to more reputable suppliers, Rothernberg, Campinggaz etc...
My Roundhouse Carrie and Reppingen EKB get blocked jets with 'Chow Mein' butane.
It may not actually be the gas but particles of crap or moisture in the cannister.


Last edited by carl hibbs on Thu May 07, 2009 8:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Thu May 07, 2009 8:27 pm

Hi Carl

Yes please order me an adaptor!

I've seperately emailed John Boyes to clarify the warranty situation viz Propane mixes.

Sounds like there's a cost saving involved in any case. Bizarrely I have a small camping gas burner in any case and loads of the larger Butane bottles. I simply went the "mix" route as it seemed the norm and recommended??

Cheers Brian
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Thu May 07, 2009 8:31 pm

fm12 wrote:

Brian experience with your edrig makes you (in my eyes anyway) a expert of all things accucraft.Looking forward to tomorrow.


Van

Please don't accord me EXPERT status my knowledge on Gas mixes is a good example!

However we can have a lot of fun learning about these things and on every issue there seem to be at least two or more contra views.

See you in the morning.

Cheers Brian
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Thu May 07, 2009 8:41 pm

Good one.

And in reality and all probability it is unlikely to cause a problem with a gas mix.

As a recommendation don't leave gas in the tank after a run, end with an empty tank and keep it vented by leaving the gas regulator open when you store it. Don't forget to close it again before refilling. Shocked

Have a great day tomorrow all three of you.

Wish I could be there but I'm going to inspect a railway this weekend somewhere else. Twisted Evil
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Fri May 08, 2009 6:40 am

Interesting response from John Boyes - verbatim .....

Hi Brian,

no problems. Butane/Propane mix is fine and I have specifically had this confirmed by Accucraft UK.

A tip is to gently upend the can a few times before filling your loco with the mix as it does separate when stored, if not gently mixed you might get a shot of pure propane and this would be bad. (Propane works at much higher pressures and must not be used on its own).

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

John
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Fri May 08, 2009 8:47 am

Interesting reply.

I would prefer to see Accucraft UK make that statement themselves but as you bought the loco from John and he is a dealer then he has made a statement with implications as quite clearly in the Accucraft instructions it says use only butane and that is also marked on the gas tank.

I must say I have never heard of this butane - propane separation in a cannister. I am going to find out more about that because that has implications too.

If it separates in the cannister it could separate in the loco's tank.

Pure propane in an Accucraft (or other) loco could lead to a serious accident and if there is even a slight risk of this happening by the liquified gas not mixing properly then that is alarming.

Imagine if that were the case. You filled you tank with a mixture of say 70/30 gas and left it for a while maybe a day or so. I occassionally leave (not Accucraft) locos 'gassed up' overnight at expos.
When you fire up you could get pure butane for 70% of tank capacity or PURE PROPANE for 30%. affraid

Also if this mixture seperates out in the cannister which I also use as a blow lamp imagine the consequences of that.
You're soldering/brazing away and suddenly the temperature/flame dramatically drops or increases....... mmm

I can't really see how that would work, 2 similar LPG products albeit with different properties and diffierent operating pressures separating in the same recepticle. I have also checked on the can and I can't find anywhere that says 'shake well before use' or alike so I would rather question John's judgement there at the moment, sorry. study

There was a big physics lesson on this subject over in GSM with no real conclusion.

At the end of day if you do some something different from what the instructions say then there is an element of risk.
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: First steaming of my new lawley   Fri May 08, 2009 5:40 pm

TEST Picture with Van present .



Let's hope it works !

B
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