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 Working in France

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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Working in France   Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:41 pm

I know obviously the French people work in France and it would be interesting, curious or just plain nosey to know what you do and how you make a living.

But does any one else, i.e. the ex-pats here actually do paid work here in France or Spain for that matter or are you all retired,

If so and without wishing to pry into finacial affairs what do you do?

I started my first day here in a new job, teaching at a public lycée (state 6th form college) to boisterous French teenagers.bounce
I had over 100 to deal with today and a whole lot more tomorrow. affraid
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:00 pm

Well I retired from the Police force in '91 as a top-rate sergeant so i get a pretty good pension. I also teach guitar and play in a sixties duo. Although i am registered it does not pay in France to earn too much money as the tax and contributions are horrendous!

mikey
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:00 pm

BTW congratulations and good Luck with the new job Carl

mikey
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:28 pm

mikeyh wrote:
Although i am registered it does not pay in France to earn too much money as the tax and contributions are horrendous!

mikey

Yes I know....!

When you say you are regsitered do you have a SIRET no. ?

I became registered last year as an 'auto entrepreneur' under the French governments scheme to streamline and simplify self-employed people doing small work. I pay little tax because I try and keep under the threshold but the other contibutions are 18%.

If anyone is thinking of starting work here as an independant it is a fairly simple matter to register.

http://www.auto-entrepreneur.fr/
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clive_t



Location : Portsmouth, England

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:32 pm

mikeyh wrote:
I also teach guitar and play in a sixties duo. Although i am registered it does not pay in France to earn too much money as the tax and contributions are horrendous!
Aw Mikey come on, you must make an absolute fortune advertising for Swiftcover.com insurance!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhBnEV3ElvY

That is you, isn't it!

_________________
Cheers,

Clive

Fat Controller of the S&CGR

http://www.scampington-chipside.co.uk
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KleineDicke



Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:19 am

Carl Hibbs wrote:

I started my first day here in a new job, teaching at a public lycée (state 6th form college) to boisterous French teenagers.bounce
I had over 100 to deal with today and a whole lot more tomorrow. affraid

Let's see... 100 students... if I remember my Roman history correctly, that would make you a Centurion. lol!

I hope you don't have them all at once. The parents in our school district would be circling the administration building with torches and pitchforks if there were 100+ kids in one class.

_________________
Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)
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fm12



Location : 87210 Haute Vienne, France

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:16 pm

On moving to France we were hit by a double wammy.First sterling fell against the euro before we had paid for the house and then are budget for renovating with the fall of sterling went out of the window and we ended up about £20.000 out of pocket affraid
Then the work I had agreed to do disappeared with the recession,I`ve found other work but it entails being away from home for periods up to five weeks at a stretch.
Thats the good news.
The bad news,yes you guessed right INCOME TAX.
Seventy per cent of my earnings is in sterling the rest in euros,wifey (Susan) also has a very small income in the UK.It means that we both have to do English and French tax returns.Even though theres a double taxation agreement between the UK and the French its means paying tax in both countries.Infact at this point intime we are both in England tidying up our finances in readiness for the coming financial year.
Yes working has a lorry driver,but can`t work for a french transport company without further qualifications.
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:34 am

I looked at the entrepeneur system when it came out but unfortunately not all occupations come under it. I'm lucky that my singing partner is the Maire of the commune next to ours and he made us into an association. It allows us to earn money but not pay tax if we don't go over the threshold. I had a siret no for 4 years when we had the tourist park. good system.

Van; my son in law is in the same boat, that although the law changed recently to allow non french licence holders to be employed by french companies, they are all behind with the courses. at least theres light at the end of the tunnel. As a self-employed driver i guess you would have to pay for the course yourself?

Mikey
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:38 am

This tax arrangement is tricky.

While I was still working for BT in England and living in France I had some very heated exchanges with the Inland Revenue.

At that time they said tax is paid on where you earn the money and with respect to where you are officially resident for tax purposes which is not the same as 'domiciled'.scratch

Trying to make sense out of actual days and exceptions that one was in or out of the country was a nightmare.
At one time I even sent them 200 Eurostar tickets to prove I was actually commuting between Paris and London.
And bless...they sent them all back by recorded delivery at taxpayers expense.

At that time the French didn't care what I was doing as I didn't exist on their records.

I'm surprised Van that you can't work for a French company without further qualifications.
What more qualifications do they want? I thought a HGV (LGV) licence was accepted all over Europe.
I would have thought they would have been only too keen to employ an experienced truck driver judging by the nutters that work for Norbert Dressingtable.

I have my licence from army days and was offered work once...well sort of..... driving a dustbin lorry around Paris. affraid Laughing
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:58 am

The employment contracts here are usually,

CDI = Contrat à Durée Illimitée, permanent contract.

Near impossible to get if you are over 45, a foreign national (even EEC), have an Arabic name or a woman likely to bear children.

Yes, discrimination exists....unofficially of course.

CDD = Contrat à Durée Determinée, short term or fixed term contract not often for less than than 600 hours in a tax year (Jan-Dec).

Vacataire = No binding contract as such. Usually short term 'missions' or contracts totalling not more than 600 hours in a year or although many companies have limit of less.
Here you are paid by the company an enhanced hourly rate which covers holidays. There is no paid holiday or sick leave. You pay normal rate tax if you pass the threshold and you contribute to the state pension. You get a'Sécurité Sociale' number.
Basically no work no pay.

This is quite a popular method for casual teachers like me!
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:25 am

Er..my son in law works for norbert dentressangle....but i know what you mean!! Laughing

mikey
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:31 am

the double taxation system should not be a problem. If you are fiscally resident in france, you pay your taxes in france no matter where your income comes from. the French tax year runs from jan to Dec, the UK Apr to apr. when you receive your P60, as anybody working in UK should, you simply declare that on a 1047K which certifies you have paid your tax on monies earnt in another Euro country. that ensures that you are not taxed twice. I have done a tax return for the last 9 years in France, online, and it takes about 7 minutes.

mikey
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:35 am

just to add that if you have a young family the advantages of being fiscally resident in France are great. with one child you dont get family allowance, but as long as you fill in a tax return in France you get the re-entree money 200-500 according to how many children you have and also other benefits. (dont quote me on the exact amounts, its been a long time since i had any young kids. I think/hope!!)

mikey
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:26 am

mikeyh wrote:
the double taxation system should not be a problem. If you are fiscally resident in france, you pay your taxes in france no matter where your income comes from. the French tax year runs from jan to Dec, the UK Apr to apr. when you receive your P60, as anybody working in UK should, you simply declare that on a 1047K which certifies you have paid your tax on monies earnt in another Euro country. that ensures that you are not taxed twice. I have done a tax return for the last 9 years in France, online, and it takes about 7 minutes.

mikey

The problem can arise with the definition of being resident in a country and how many days are counted as residency.

I was on a fine line. Staying in the UK whilst working and travelling back to France at weekends and other periods. What I was obviously trying to do at the time was to be exempt from UK income tax and be exempt from French tax too Wink .....but it didn't bloody work! Neutral
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:28 am

mikeyh wrote:
the double taxation system should not be a problem.

mikey

Not in our experience Mad

I am unemployed and under retirement age, so do not receive a pension or regular income of any sort, despite being a full time equine waste operative Rolling Eyes

Caroline still works in UK from time to time and for first two years registered a French Company expecting to get double taxation relief we are still trying to recover many thousands of pounds from HM Revenue. She now has a UK registered Co. and that is a far better option.

This year I have, like Mikey registered as an auto-entrepreneur to get a Siret number. This covers me legally for any tiny amounts of pocket money I earn from concreting projects (I have huge petrol cement mixer); photography ffotografer ; vide grenier's and escorting local walks with the pack donkey!

If your income is well below threshold you simply pay 20%, in arrears on what you declare!

_________________
Brian
Brian
also blogging at
www.frenchgardenrailways.com
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:34 am

Nice to have you back Brian, I was getting worried.

I didn't know you were a professional photographer and I had some ask me a while ago about whether I knew anyone.

I will print out your details. Smile
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:48 am

Oh I've been around, just not much to report on the railway front with the atrocious weather!

I'm not a professional photographer as such, just a very serious amateur! When back in the UK I qualified for RPS ( Royal Photographic Society ) membership.

Happy to to take on most work, but not keen on weddings - high stress!

My next commission is the cover shot for Mikey's new CD Very Happy

_________________
Brian
Brian
also blogging at
www.frenchgardenrailways.com
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:53 am

Yes Alain and I talked about it last night so I will probably phone you in the next couple of days Brian.

mikey
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:16 pm

Have you got the title for it yet Mikey?

You were talking about 'Let's Party' or similar in French.

I did ask some students this week how they would translate it in the sense.

« allons-y alors »,
« et hop, c'est parti »

This was after listening to the Black Eyed Peas, 'I gotta feelin'
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:07 pm

I don't know if its because the French language is more complicated or whether 'lets party' is bad English but I've now had 7 different ways of saying it! We like 'allons a la fete' at the moment.

mikey
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:30 pm

Don't forget the accents.... Very Happy

'allons à la fête'.

You can type accents using any keyboard with the 'alt' key + code.

I have a list of the French ones if anyone wants.
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KleineDicke



Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:46 pm

Carl Hibbs wrote:
Don't forget the accents.... Very Happy

'allons à la fête'.

You can type accents using any keyboard with the 'alt' key + code.

I have a list of the French ones if anyone wants.

Or you could get a Mac in which case, codes are not needed. For example, for an accent aigu one types option+e followed by another e.

_________________
Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)
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dtsteam



Location : Preston, England

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:41 pm

Carl Hibbs wrote:


I became registered last year as an 'auto entrepreneur' under the French governments scheme to streamline and simplify self-employed people doing small work. I pay little tax because I try and keep under the threshold but the other contibutions are 18%.

Just out of curiosity, what is the treshold, and how much do you pay if you hit it ? Or isn't it that simple ?
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Working in France   Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:36 pm

It depends on how much you earn.

See:

Impot sur revenue

There are 'tranches' and as you earn more you move into a higher bracket.

There a number of dodges and it is something of a national pastime in France to avoid paying income tax.

Also there is not the same Pay As You Earn scheme as in the UK.
You can often find yourself paying a huge lump sum at the end of the year. Most people budget and save for their tax.


With the Auto Entrepreneur scheme you can elect to pay tax as you go in which case they deduct automatically 22% of your declared income or you can elect not to pay tax as you go and just pay 18% 'cotisation', pension and social security.
They will refund you if your annual earnings are less than the minimum threshold but again if earn over about 6,000 euros in the year you will get a big fat green and grey bill from 'Le Trésor Publique'..... Crying or Very sad
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