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 French 4-wheel coaches

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PostSubject: French 4-wheel coaches   Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:57 pm

Hi everyone. This is my first post here, been lurking a while but I have an ulterior motive - I need help!

It's looking more and more likely that I and a group of friends will be building an exhibition layout (G Scale) based loosely on the metre gauge Baie de Somme, set probably just after WWII. I'm looking for something to use as a basis of passenger stock which needs to be either reasonably easy to convert from something existing and needs to be of short wheelbase... I had thought of the planked bodied LGB 4-wheeler which I am sure I have seen bashed and used as a French vehicle but can anyone offer any inspirational pictures of prototypes or suggest other models. LGB is the range I know best though I'm willing to go for kits depending on price. I think we will need three rakes for a total of 12 vehicles but I would think one fourgon per train will be used so we may need up to 9 passenger coaches.

I'm wondering if any of the LGB 35093 or 32078 or 31077 might be a useful base to work from?

http://www.lokpavillon.de/shop/bildergross/501-35093.jpg

http://www.lokpavillon.de/shop/bildergross/501-32078.jpg

http://www.eurorailhobbies.com/item_pics/LGB/t4_LGB-31077.jpg

LGB also made a 4-wheel planked-sided coach that is now discontinued I think. I can't recall its catalogue number, nor find an image Sad

Any advice or links to useful French rolling stock image sites would be very gratefully received.

Thank you!
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:41 am

That's great to have you here. - I know you were around on GSM.
And that's a great project which is just my kind of era.

(I'm looking at a metre gauge Normandy railway myself which will be the subject of another post.)

Before going any further I would recommend a look at an incredible exhibition layout created by Peter Smith (Kirtly Model buildings)
called St Jean sur Mer. This is based loosely on the Picardy coast somewhere.
Strangely he wants to sell this layout after this year......

For French 4 wheelers I would look at an article about 5 years ago (???) in Gardenrail (and other publications) written Bernard Déluard (Monsieur Corpet) and his railway CF Côtes D'or. He built/converted a rake of accurate CFD type 4 wheelers. I will have a look and see I have have further information.

He has a building blog as well somewhere.

Also...Gecomodel made a superb abs kit which maybe available if you ask discretely.

The proprietor, George Comella has now retired but I know he still makes a few things for people privately.

For drawings or further information a visit to the MTVS is a must. They also published reviews which give illustrated details of metre gauge rolling stock.

Failing that I have many books too with drawings that I could scan if required.

The only thing 'wrong' with using LGB items is the wheelbase. The metre gauge stock in France had close axles with overhanging ends!

Most importantly keep us informed with progress on this exciting project. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:03 am

Hello Carl, thanks and what a helpful reply!

I am sure it is Bernard Déluard and his CF Côtes D'or line that I remember. I can picture the article, I just did not know who it was by and when it was published but your information will assist in finding it. I have many Garden Rail back issues so I will look through them. I found the images of his line very inspirational.

Yes, I'm aware of Peter Smith's fine St. Jean sur Mer layout. He too is an inspiration.

I thought George Comella had completely ceased issuing kits... I will have a polite word with him and see if he might be willing to produce a few items for us, at least our group is in the market for several kits, not just a one-off, so that may make it worth his effort.

I'm happy to kitbash to some degree and repaint, reletter and weather. I'm less confident when it comes to hacking running gear around. Smooth reliable running is a must for me and I don't know if my skills are up to the challenge of altering chassis to the reliable quality I'd demand!

Thanks for all the info. I will start looking around.
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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:44 pm

I know it's not much help but just did a search on exact editions (Garden Rail) archives. Nothing about Mr Luard or his railway back to Jan 2006. So "about 5 years ago " seems right .

Interestingly a seach of CFD, Corpet, France kept bringing up lots of hits by a certain "ex-patriot", was it really that long ago ?

_________________
Wake me up by noon please.

Patrick
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PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:47 pm

Thanks Patrick. I have now found the two issues in question - nos. 122 and 123 of Oct and Nov 2004. The articles include no track plan yet I am sure I have seen one published somewhere which may indicate there is another article by Bernard around.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:35 pm

Here's his blog address. He would be happy to hear from you. A very knowledgeable and welcoming man.

Bernard Déluard

The last I could see he was building CFD (Carel...???) bogie coaches as used on the CFBS.

I know someone else now who has built metre gauge wagons and converted LGB stock.

That is Maarten Meeuwes, 'The Training Dutcman'. Another great talented chap I bump into from time to time.

http://www.trainingdutchman.nl/

His multilingual website is rather large so look for 'projects' then 'wagons'.
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KleineDicke



Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:27 pm

The LGB 3206 was sold as a French coach. It's rather generic with French lettering, nice but nothing special. here's a link: http://www.altek.nl/pdf/Franse32060Aanpassen-Screen.pdf (sorry it's in Dutch). There was also a longer wheelbase 4 wheel coach which represents the current green/red livery of the CFBS, LGB 32200 : http://gbdb.info/details.php?image_id=2006&mode=search&sessionid=595d68a958e23b44018edf1a7fdc66f8&l=english

Based upon what I saw at CFBS, I'd think the LGB "Fakultativ" Wagon, LGB 4039, wouuld be another good choice. http://gbdb.info/details.php?image_id=846&mode=search&l=english.

Any of the "shorty" 4 wheel vans or gondolas ( LGB 94005, 94006, 94007) would work as well. LGB also made a "French" boxcar, 44350, but I like the shorty ones better.

Get a nice Corpet-Louvet to head up the train and nobody will notice the rest of the cars. Very Happy

_________________
Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)
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PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:25 pm

Thank you very much gentlemen, those are very useful links and good ideas for the basis of stock conversion projects.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:00 pm

Martin....
You may also like to try the Lasergang

They are a German manufacturer producing reasonably priced laser cut wooden kits.
Some of these are quite close to French looking stock.


This brings me on to another suggestion, idea etc.. that occassionally crops up.
...buying a CO2 laser cutter and doing stuff ourselves. I saw a new one for sale recently for less than 3,000 euros.
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clive_t



Location : Portsmouth, England

PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:13 pm

How would one use a laser cutter then?

_________________
Cheers,

Clive

Fat Controller of the S&CGR

http://www.scampington-chipside.co.uk
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http://www.scampington-chipside.co.uk
Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:25 pm

Thanks Carl, one or two of those coaches have potential and some of the vans, a couple in particular look decidedly French.

I assumed laser cutters were guided by software and are (obviously) linked to a computer that runs a program telling the cutting head where to move and when to power on and off. I've seen videos of one working (at the 16mm show at Stoneleigh last weekend) and they whizz along quite fast zapping out window openings very quickly. No way can the accuracy and speed be anything but driven by a computer.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:04 am

I've been thinking about a C02 laser cutter for a while.

There is actually one for sale new on e bay now.

Laser cutter

This is however only a very small format and would just about do 1 wagon side!

They are very simple to use and are driven by PC software. The ones I've seen operating just connect via USB.

The best material seems to be thin birch ply as traditionally used in model aircraft/boats. Styrene (plasticard) seems more difficult as to get the temperature right but it is certainly possible.
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Bearcastle



Location : Brie

PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:45 am

The same direct from china about 2000 € cheapper. I looked at all those equipment as well (but not for now, need to finish the house first).

http://cgi.ebay.fr/New-40W-USB-CO2-Laser-Engraver-Cutter-8-2-x-8-CE_W0QQitemZ130378989755QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1e5b3180bb
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http://scfbrie.webs.com/
Bearcastle



Location : Brie

PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:06 am

But most of those table machine cannot cut brass, so read carefully what they said it could do.
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http://scfbrie.webs.com/
Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:11 am

Blimey.....pays to shop around on e bay.

Yes the decktop ones are limited and I think in reality one would need a machine that could handle a piece of material 60cms long, a coach side for example.

I'm not too worried about doing brass as that can be done by chemical etching fairly cheaply.

Having seen the laser etched wood kits that are about (like the OCCRE tram kits) that would be the way to go. After all most of coach and wagon stock we model is wood.

Now Laurent...if you can find a laser cutter that will handle 60cms for less than 1000€ I'll buy it and make some 'K' series wagons. Very Happy
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:45 am

I've been very impressed with the new range of laser cut coaches IP engineering are doing. Very reasonably priced and with a bit of tweaking could look very french

Mikey
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clive_t



Location : Portsmouth, England

PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:23 am

I was about to suggest that very thing Mikey! Link, for information: http://www.ipengineering.co.uk/

_________________
Cheers,

Clive

Fat Controller of the S&CGR

http://www.scampington-chipside.co.uk
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Guest
Guest



PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:00 pm

Which IPEngineering coaches in particular have a French mood to them? I can't see anything but English and Welsh styles. I was going to link to a picture I found yesterday from a site that had many photos of closed lines but I can't find the link! Argh, I must have not saved it.

Does anyone know the site I'm referring to? It has links to many NG French and other railways arranged by European country and the photos are all modern, taken in preservation and also some photos of old trackbeds where the site owner has walked lifted lines. Some very inspirational pictures too of French NG station buildings now converted to private houses... I'm kicking myself now for not saving the link and I'm sure I got it from this forum... but now I can't find it.

So frustrating!
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clive_t



Location : Portsmouth, England

PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:04 pm

Martin, your browser might well have remembered for you - have a look on the browser history on the PC that you used, to see what sites you visited in the last 36 hours or so.

As an aside, was it http://www.railfaneurope.net/ ?

_________________
Cheers,

Clive

Fat Controller of the S&CGR

http://www.scampington-chipside.co.uk
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:35 pm

Dont want to teach granny to suck eggs but have you looked through my thread on french railway postcards? I started off two years ago thinking there was only a couple of suitable styles of coaches for tramways, but after looking at more than 2000 postcards i realise that there were many many different styles. Try 'googling' anciens cartes postales de la Baie de la Somme. You may be surprised. (and dont worry about the masculine/feminine thing google will sort it out!!)

mikey
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Guest
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PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:41 pm

Hmm... so strange. No, Clive, it wasn't Railfaneurope that's for sure but the page I recall did have categories on a blue background in boxes... I can't find it even in the history of the last 7 days. I'm sure I saw these images yesterday... I didn't think my dementia was that advanced! I'll keep looking.

Mikey - thanks. I don't think it was from your thread as the images I found were all modern and clearly taken by a NG fan on holiday or on field trips exploring old lines.

Anyway, this nearest coach struck me as looking quite English:

http://www.voieetroite.com/imgve/cfv36.jpg

The dark green coach in this train may be the same vehicle, but again, it looks very English or Welsh:

http://www.chemin-fer-baie-somme.asso.fr/Images/phototheque/77_bis.JPG
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:45 pm

Am I correct in thinking that the Baie de Somme railway has a lot of english stock that was left there after the war. I know some locos were ,but i'm sure some of the rolling stock is/was of English heritage

mikey
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Guest



PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:50 pm

I've not heard that story, though it seems unlikely. I would only think English stock would be used on lines that were of importance in getting France's infrastructure up and running again after hostilities ceased and the Baie de Somme hardly fits that category. Besides, all English stock would need re-gauging wouldn't it? I also tend to think American WD stock would be shipped over, rather than curious items of British NG stock.

I may be wrong, I have no idea of the true situation - to me though it seems unlikely.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:30 pm

No chaps these coaches are quite French.

This was one of Gecomodel's last kits:



and based on those on the Vivarais nicknamed;

"Cages à poules"

The were built in the early 1900s by De Dietrich à Lunéville I believe.

There were many variants and used on standard gauge lines
The LGB coaches could make a passable representation with some modification.......



Or....Accucraft produced som IOM coaches that could be bashed.


Last edited by Carl Hibbs on Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: French 4-wheel coaches   Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:46 pm

Here's another De Dietrich variant.

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