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 The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)

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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Mon May 10, 2010 6:37 pm

A recent post by bearcastle has reminded me that we have fast trains in Spain too. I took the Santander - Madrid train a few weeks ago and the improvement is remarkable. Previously the journey took about 7.5 hours , now it's about 4 hours problem is that a lot of the high speed line is single working and on the night I travelled there was a heavy snowfall. This meant that everything ran late coming in the opposite direction, and we had to sit in loops while slow freights and others were given priority. We arrived at Charmartin Station (Madrid) about 90 mins late - the station was switched off and shut down for the night. We were met by security men with torches to light our way out of the station, absolute darkness in the station if you can believe it. (no H + S here) Fortunately someone had advised the taxis of the late running and we were able to get to our destination quickly. We had travelled first class and apart from the delays the service was excellent, although the heating was a tad too hot for my liking but no one else seemed to mind. I think it was minus 3 outside down to minus 6 at one point. The return journey was uneventful except it was early in the morning, we were delayed 20 minutes. We got up to 199kmh , smooth, quiet - after Palencia the speed dropped off as the track had not been upgraded. We felt every join in the rails.






Spain is investing heavily in the new high speed trains. At Christmas we drove down to Benidorm, for the most part the road is paralleled by the railway track (Madrid - Alicante), what I found quite amazing is that they have not followed the "old" track but straightened out the curves and built tunnels and raised the track to keep it level using very long viaducts, whereas the road twist and turns and has large changes in elevation the track is straight and level for kilometre after kilometre. This is but one example, the aim is to have all major centres accessible by high speed links by the end of this year.]

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mikeyh

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Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Mon May 10, 2010 6:51 pm

Interesting Patrick. dont know how true it is but i heard that 5 diesels were on loan from UK (dont know what company) to carry out the improvements to the line

mikey
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Olot

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Location : La Garriga-Catalonia

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Tue May 11, 2010 9:33 am

Unfortunately the train of great speed, similar to the German model, only travels at 300 Km/hr in some moment. The rest of the journey|route only circulates between 200 and 220. This is what makes a train normal intercity in Germany.

However it seems to me that perhaps the price of the TGV is higher than in Germany.

To end|finish, the noncompliance of timetables as unpunctual is a habitual in Spain.
There is not the mentality of link either among|between trains. Therefore, the timetables are not complemented.

The width of different gauge does not allow a comfortable and fast international link.

Incomparable with the rest Europe. Evil or Very Mad

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Amadeu

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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Tue May 11, 2010 9:59 am

Mmmmmmmm, Amedeu , perhaps you have knowledge ? My wife said that the train stops at Palencia to change the guage - is this correct ?


peut-être vous avez la connaissance ? Mon épouse a dit que le train cesse à Palencia de changer la mesure (width) - est-il ce correct ?




Edit : Actually it seems to be true and it's at Valladolid - see the video (scroll down)

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Patrick


Last edited by pjti on Tue May 11, 2010 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Tue May 11, 2010 11:36 am

Quote :
To end|finish, the noncompliance of timetables as unpunctual is a habitual in Spain.


On the Renfe/Ave website it says that -
Quote :
"En caso de producirse un retraso imputable a Renfe Ave, le reintegraremos el porcentaje correspondiente al precio de su billete en función de la siguiente escala:


Entre 16 y 30 minutos 50%
Más de 30 minutos 100%

Which means that if the delay is directly attributable to Renfe they will reimburse the cost of your fare.

On the night we travelled and were 90 mins late we were told it is not Renfes fault - it's the snow.

Oh forgot to mention, in addition to the stops we actually had to swap trains because our train had come to rest behind another (shut down/ switched off/ driver in bed) and could not proceed at Valladolid. The replacement train came about an hour later to pick us up.

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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Tue May 11, 2010 12:10 pm

Changing the guage !!!!!!!


You just have to see this video - I thought Mrs was crazy when she told me about the "stop to change guage"


Changing the guage at Valladolid

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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Tue May 11, 2010 12:54 pm

Patrick,

they have been doing this for many many years via Irun/Hendaye and Port Bou.

In 3 weeks I will be travelling from Paris to pick up the Barcelona train from Montpellier and this gets gauge changed at Port Bou without us having to get off, until Barcelona.

Similarly the Elipsos Tren Hotel runs direct daily from Paris Austerlitz into Barcelona with auto gauge changing.

I bet Napolean never realised the effects he would have on the modern world. By that I mean Spain chose the broad gauge to help avoid rail based invasion.
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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Tue May 11, 2010 1:06 pm

Oh - well I thought it was interesting anyway. Sad

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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Tue May 11, 2010 1:12 pm

Yes it was Patrick and I enjoyed the video. Tx.
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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Tue May 11, 2010 1:13 pm

Little article by the notorious Mike Bent on the Pajares Pass route.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel/holiday_type/rail_travel/article787402.ece
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Olot

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Location : La Garriga-Catalonia

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Tue May 11, 2010 3:19 pm

Pajares is one of the spectacular month lines of mountain that it|he|she can be in Spain

The return of money for delay is an advertising. Really, a lot few times is produced. There are almost always excuses of bad payer. In others this only formulates it is for the trains of length itinerary and high speed. Intercity service and periphery cities they are excluded.

The video of the change of gauge is very good.

At present in Spain the railways of great speed, which are of new construction, sleep of gauge 1435 mm.
This forces in RENFE to having trains with variable gauge. There are mechanisms of gauge change in several points of the Spanish network|net. It|He|She can be perfectly in Valladolid, and in Palencia. Other lines, as Huesca, there is way|railway of three lanes.
In Australia, that there are also several gauges, they also have some system of gauge change.
In Spain it|he|she makes many years that this operation is made at the border with France (Portugal has the same one gauge that Spain)
But this system is only valid for the Talgo, only Spanish train that circulates for the foreigner

Today in Spain there are three systems by|out of|for change of gauge:

1) change of axes|axles, which it is carried out in the goods trains and in some trains of travellers, as|like the Paris-Lisboa.
The change is made raising all the train and substituting all axes|axles and boogies. Naturally, the train is stopped while the operation is made

2) system Talgo, which is very slow. Although it can be made in about 20 minutes, it|he|she always usually lasts about 45/45 minutes, or more. It implies change of locomotive. This makes the train stay without light nor refrigeration while the maneuver lasts. The change is made at a speed of 30 Km/hr maximum.

3) the most modern system applies TGV of gauge 1435 to itself|himself since there is the network|net. In this case the change of gauge is made non-stop the train, that it|he|she can go at a speed of about 60 Km/hr. The change of gauge is made in some seconds. The Talgo does not enter in this new system.

To end|finish, it|he|she would want to mark that the biggest gauge in Spain it was not motivated to avoid an invasion.

To avoid an invasion one should have been chosen gauge narrower nowhere in wider. I will explain myself:
If is needed to invade a country in where the gauge is wider, it is only necessary to install a third lane and the trains can enter. In return, if the country to invade it|he|she has one gauge narrower, it|he|she also has a narrower gauge|model.
In this case, in spite of he|she|it becomes|puts a third rail, the invading trains can not go|pass through|across the tunnels nor platforms|roadsides, which are narrower.

The true reason for the one that one was chosen gauge bigger|greater, it was for that a steam engine, as bigger|greater it|he|she had the boiler, more power had. One gauge bigger|greater it|he|she allows a bigger boiler. Therefore a way|railway wider it|he|she allowed more it|he|she promotes in the locomotives.
This decided in the period of the "war of gauges", when the gauge of 1435 still it|he|she was not established as standart.

I expect that the English that I have written with the translator is enough understandable

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Amadeu

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mikeyh

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Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Tue May 11, 2010 3:25 pm

Amadeu, David and Patrick; i'm finding these threads on Spanish trains extremely interesting. Can anybody post any more pics?

Mikey
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Olot

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Location : La Garriga-Catalonia

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Tue May 11, 2010 3:47 pm

Excuses. What is pics?

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Amadeu

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mikeyh

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Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Tue May 11, 2010 3:53 pm

Desole Amadeu, 'pics' c'est un abreviation de pictures (photos)!

mikey
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Olot

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Location : La Garriga-Catalonia

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Tue May 11, 2010 4:13 pm

OK

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Amadeu

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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Wed May 12, 2010 2:32 pm

Mikey,

not sure whether we should have a new thread called Spanish Railway Photos but for now:-

FC de Soller
http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/164

FC de Alcoy al Puerto de Gandia
http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/117

FC de Alicante a Denia
http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/121

FC de Carcagente a Denia
http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/120

FC de Langreo
http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/125

FC de La Robla
http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/124

FC de Olot a Gerona
http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/119

FC de Ponferrada a Villablino
http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/126

FC de San Feliu de Guixols a Gerona
http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/118

Ferrocarriles Catalanes
http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/141

Ferrocarriles de Penarroya y Puertollano
http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/122

Industrial Railways
http://www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/127
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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Wed May 12, 2010 4:26 pm

Mikey, I put up some links on the links/associations page - I have now killed off the bad links, you'll find lots of pics

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Patrick
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Olot

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Location : La Garriga-Catalonia

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Thu May 13, 2010 5:39 am

Excellent web. I will attempt to correspond with this:

http://www.30937.co.uk/menu.htm

http://cartotecadigital.icc.cat/cdm4/results.php?CISOOP1=all&CISOBOX1=ferrocarrils&CISOFIELD1=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP2=exact&CISOBOX2=&CISOFIELD2=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP3=any&CISOBOX3=&CISOFIELD3=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOOP4=none&CISOBOX4=&CISOFIELD4=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOROOT=all&t=a

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Amadeu

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mikeyh

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Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Thu May 13, 2010 6:51 am

WoW! Photographic overload! Thankyou David, Patrick, and Amadeu. I asked for more Spanish railway pictures and I certainly got them!

Mikey
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PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Thu May 13, 2010 8:09 am

Great auto-gauge changing video. I for one had no idea this was done, so thanks!

Also - whoa! Pictures! Lots! *goes to file many away*
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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Thu May 13, 2010 9:10 am

I have put Davids links on the links pages for posterity. Hope no one minds

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Patrick
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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Thu May 13, 2010 12:43 pm

Saddletank thanks,

Not much use to me but for those that can" parle le francaise" there is a 10 minute video that explains the whole operation in great detal. (In French)Changing the gauges

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Patrick
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Olot

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Location : La Garriga-Catalonia

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Fri May 14, 2010 2:44 pm

to continue the subject

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnSKhch9CLM&feature=grec

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Amadeu

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tram47

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Location : Aquitaine (France)

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Fri May 14, 2010 4:37 pm

tu n'as rien sur le Barcelone-Perpignan?
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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: The Trains in Spain run very fast on the Plains ( in theory)   Fri May 14, 2010 4:45 pm

Nice video, thanks Amedeu.

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Patrick
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