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 Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars

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Paulus



Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:38 pm

I have a LGB / ToyTrain tankcar (94040) that I want to convert in a something more French looking 'wagon citerne'.

Now I was thinking of a tankcar with some text on the sides, for instance a wine transporter, a petrol tankcar or perhaps a milkcar.
I Googled and came across some very nice and colorful examples of brands like Pechelbronn, Socaline, Mitjavile, Pujas, Algeco, Dubonnet, Paul Millet, vins de Postillon and G.R.A.P. Also some nice STEF tankcars (milk transport).
But unfortunately I could not find any nice examples of narrow gauge tankcars... Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

Did tankcars with brandnames even exist in French narrow gauge? Or were they only to be found as standard gauge cars?
If they did exist in narrow gauge, does somebody has some pictures of some or knows were I can find them? Question

Other ideas and suggestions to convert the car is a more French looking one are also very welcome!

Paul
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clive_t



Location : Portsmouth, England

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:45 pm

Hello Paul

Not sure if this is narrow gauge, but here is a postcard image from www.delcampe.fr



and a more modern type, with bogie wheel arrangement:


_________________
Cheers,

Clive

Fat Controller of the S&CGR

http://www.scampington-chipside.co.uk
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Paulus



Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:44 pm

Hello Clive,

The black and white picture is exactly the kind of tankcar I'm aiming for (that sign on top is a good idea!). Unfortunately I'm pretty sure these are both standard gauge cars, because they have 2 buffers instead of 1 in the middle...

Paul

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Paul pirat
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:18 pm

Paul there weren't many narrow gauge citernes that I have seen. Those that existed seemed to be for internal or maintenance use like water, local fuel or weedkilling or even a fire tender such as this one in Corsica.
Corsica fire wagon

Most of the metre gauge freight traffic was carried in vans or open wagons as the very nature of these line was short haul produce and not usually bulk liquids.
If you look at old pictures of Tulle for example that had a large provincial interchange yard in the Correze you won't see many or any tankers.

I have looked and can't find much in France. However in Switzerland and Germany it would appear different.

But don't let that stop you building. There's a prototype for everything!
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Paulus



Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:06 pm

I keep on searching...
I found some pictures of WW1 60 cm gauge (what is too small for my idea) but I did found 1 picture of a tankcar that looks somewhat simular to the ToyTrain tankcar in use with the Chemin de fer de Corse: http://home.nordnet.fr/~lbeaumadier/04/2004.html (see picture 2 under "Barchetta - 2004").

Eggerbahn made some tankers in H0e scale but you can ask yourself how prototypical those are...

I came across many sites today and it looks like "citernes"were indeed not that common in French narrow gauge. Or as Carl states, more used as maintenance cars etcetera.
Mostly it was just a tank build on a flat car (and that is also what the ToyTrain model is...).


But I'm thinking if I can't find any nice prototype I just "make one up" pirat
This one looks very appealing (though the LGB car does not have an brake cab... or not yet!).

This is a Marklin model I found on: Achat.ville.com

On several internetshops they sell those old metal plates (emaille plaques) of this brand and I found some good pictures that I can use to make decals from (just Google "vin Postillon" in the images option and you get some nice examples!).
White tank, so perfect for the thin home made decals.

Or perhaps a I create my own "vins du Paul' cheers

Or a fire tender...

Or.... perhaps I turn it into a maintenance tankcar / local fuel after all... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
A local fuel suplier can carry a brand name of course...

Anyway... if anyone find something I'm still interested!


Paul

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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:54 pm

There were many sucreries and pressoirs plus cidreries specially up here in the north.
Some were served by rail.

I will keeping looking to see if any had tankers.
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Paulus



Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:01 am

I've found a new picture in a thread about the Chemin de fer de Provence on: www.passion-metrique.net

Click here and scroll down to the fourth post It's a yellow tankcar, if I read it correct it was used as a weeder once, but 'm not sure what it is used for now...

And another one in the same thread: click here and scroll down to the 12th picture. Some green tank behind the locomotive.
A tankcar or a tank on a flat car???

We keep on searching drunken
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Spule 4



Location : Tennessee, USA

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Tue Oct 05, 2010 3:38 am

Paul-

Dunno about French tank cars, but here is an idea-

I know that the RhB (Swiss) HSB (German) and some other railways had many meter gauge tank cars going back to nearly their start.

Searching "Kesselwagen" on google.de, turned up:

http://www.buntbahn.de/modellbau/printview.php?t=3243&start=0

http://www.buntbahn.de/modellbau/viewtopic.php?t=9457

http://www.der-lokbauer.de/INFO/Kesselwagen-kurzGross.jpg

...or even look at some standard gauge types as you have done:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Luzna_6.jpg

Now, maybe France did not have narrow gauge tank cars, but maybe your narrow gauge railway does.

So use these pictures and designs to influence your own car, based on design and other cars of the era, so while not real, at least it looks right.


_________________
Garrett
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:45 am

How about this.....

Wagon foudre

or this

Wagon foudre diag.

....and whilst searching I came across this fantastic set of pictures of metre gauge stock, many of which I have never seen before.

Metre gauge pics

....and about half way down there is indeed a metre gauge tank wagon of rather dubious parentage.!
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GWhizz



Location : Charente, France

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:35 am

And if you're looking for a base for your model, the cheap "Newquida" tankers are ideal remove the spoof BP decals from the green ones and off you go...


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Brian
Brian
also blogging at
www.frenchgardenrailways.com
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Spule 4



Location : Tennessee, USA

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:55 pm

Good suggestion on the Neqida cars.

I have one I have painted grey (common color for Czech tankers) and it improved the model, and have a second one to do. Now to come up with lettering....

_________________
Garrett
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KleineDicke



Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:33 pm

I agree with Garrett - if you want a tanker on your voie metrique, go for it. Whether you can find a prototype or not, there's no reason why you can't model one. Although it might be a standard gauge car, the first photo posted (by Clive) looks like a good basis for a model. Make a car to transport some sort of local produce, like Cider, Vinegar, or Olive Oil.

I have to disagree, however, with the Newqida recommendation - and this has nothing to do with where it's made or whether it's a knock-off LGB. First, the Newqida model is based on a more modern tanker and to my eyes, it doesn't look at home with the other sorts of stock typical on small, local railways. But, more importantly, I simply don't find the Newqida tanker a good value. I have one, and the plastic used for the tank is so thin, it's translucent. The overall quality is only fair- you get what you pay for, I guess. (BTW, the Newqida passenger coaches are a good buy- the materials and build quality are both better)

Paulus suggested a Lehmann Toy Train tanker- which is an infinitely better choice. Not only is it more durable and better made, it looks more "voie metrique" to my eyes. You can also buy one on eBay for about the same amount as one of the Newqida cars would cost you.

_________________
Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:07 pm

I find myself in agreement with Bill. i'm currently making a few citernes and having made/bashed the chassis am looking for tin cans of the right dimensions. With a few additions (ladders,lids/taps) and a bit of natural rust it will look the part and for me thats the most important thing. Mind you mine have to look as though they belong in 1910!!

mikey
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Paulus



Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:58 pm

Thanks for all the good advice!

I've decided to go for a freelance model. Don't know yet if I go for an existent brand or a made up one. Actually, cider, vinegar or olive oil are some great options too (all those choices... It's hard t be a modeler Wink )

I already have the ToyTrain car (the 94040 orange "Lehman Benzin" car, like this one. ) and it indeed does have that "narrow gauge look".
Also a scratch build brake cab on the bordes is considered because that looks so nice Cool


Paul
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KleineDicke



Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:33 pm

mikeyh wrote:
I find myself in agreement with Bill. i'm currently making a few citernes and having made/bashed the chassis am looking for tin cans of the right dimensions. With a few additions (ladders,lids/taps) and a bit of natural rust it will look the part and for me thats the most important thing. Mind you mine have to look as though they belong in 1910!!

mikey

Mikey:
Glad you're back- I was afraid we'd lost you from the forum.

I think a pair of PVC Pipe caps glued together would make a decent tank - perhaps a bit short, but that'd leave more room for the brakeman's cabin. If you wanted it longer, you could add some coupling bushings between the caps. You could even add a Tee to give you a hatch. Of course, you might have to drop a euro or two at the bricolage, but sacrifices must be made.

_________________
Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)
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mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:13 am

Good idea re the plastic piping Bill! You'll never lose me from here! Just have finished the Demiel thread (for now)

Mikey
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clive_t



Location : Portsmouth, England

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:23 am

One other idea for the 'tank' part of a wagon - I don't know if they sell it in the same packaging where you are, but here in the UK the supermarkets sell grated parmesan cheese in round plastic containers with a flat bottom and a flat lid (albeit with holes in it for the obvious reason) - I have one or two set aside for some purpose as yet undecided, but I am thinking that maybe they would be a good start.

The only negative thing I found with them was the difficulty in getting the label off - the glue is almost impossible to remove it seems.

_________________
Cheers,

Clive

Fat Controller of the S&CGR

http://www.scampington-chipside.co.uk
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Paulus



Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:50 pm

I go for a Margnat car. I just love the red characters and the white and blue colorscheme!!!
Inspiration came from the old Joueff H0 cars.

Did some simple editing on a Toytrain car picture to see how it can look, with or without brakeman cab.
Not on the tryout, but planned, is a ladder and a platform on top or on the side.



Don't know if I go for the bigger or the smaller sign.
Perhaps a sign also on one of the topsides?
Any suggestions?

Paul
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KleineDicke



Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:56 pm

Looks good. I like the smaller logo with the brakeman's cab. I've always liked the look of those cabs on a freight car. I think I'd try to tone down the blue a bit as well.

Bleu, blanc, rouge, eh? Where have I seen that before....

_________________
Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)
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Paulus



Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:43 pm

Blue, blanc rouge... the French tri-colore (and Dutch to offcourse Laughing )

I like the version with the smaller logo and cab the most also.

The blue is as close I could get on in Paint to the Margnat blue I've seen on the net.
Actually I don't know how to describe the color. I bought a Tamiya rattlecan "French Blue" to use on the model.

Some examples of what I'v found:

2 toycars found on forum-auto.com (I love the sign on the back!):
http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/676136/margnat.jpg

Another Margnat toy truck: http://oran2.free.fr/PUB/slides/MARGNAT.html

The old Jouef car on www.joueftrains.com: http://www.joueftrains.com/images/641%20Vins%20Margnat1.jpg

The real thing... black and blue??? Also found on on forum-auto.com:
http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/814132/tlm10m2trk10ld610t.jpg

This is the model of the truck in the link above... and it's black! No
http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimages/300438/P1010023.jpg

Paul

PS: I started with the car!!! I'll post a new topic about the build Idea
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Paulus



Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Need some help; French narrow gauge tankcars   Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:05 pm

And this one is dark blue again... Sad

http://cgi.ebay.nl/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260652158077

But I stay with my "french blue" Wink

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Paul pirat
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