Continental Garden Trains
Guests can read but log in to post
Continental Garden Trains

For the average enthusiast of trains in garden scale.
 
PortalPortal  HomeHome  RegisterRegister  Log in  

Share | 
 

 RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
AuthorMessage
Paulus



Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:32 am

I have 2 LGB Stainz locomotives that are still track powered. One is planned to be kitbashed into something else one day.

The other one (my very first G scale locomotive so I have nostalgic feelings about it) will stay itself.
I want to make the Stainz radio controlled (so it can run outside on my -non trackpowered- layout) and if possible with it's own batteries on board (I know you can put the batteries in a car behind the engine, but I would prefer if they are on board).

Does anybody here has some experience building in RC and batteries into this locomotive? Notice: it's the Stainz with build in speaker (for the choo-choo sound) and smokegenerator. Sound does NOT have to stay, keeping the smoke would be fun though.

All advice/tips/how-to's/stories etc. will be very appreciated!!!
Also, if anyone has an exploded-view drawing of this model, that would be very welcome also!

Paul

Back to top Go down
pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:11 pm

Amazing coincidence - I was just thinking of the very same thing myself, I think Mr Gwhizz has some experience of this sort of thing.

One thing that I just thought of is that you must isolate the feed from the wheels/pickups otherwise you send juice down the track. I am thinking a 2 way ? switch to select track or battery power, I have got a load of Nimh or a 12v SLA (Sealed Lead Acid) to power it which will sit in a wagon. Hobbyking have lots of goodies for you to buy/ play with....................that's as far as I have got Very Happy


If you give me your email in a PM I can send you the stainz "exploded" in pdf form.

_________________
Wake me up by noon please.

Patrick
Back to top Go down
Paulus



Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:27 pm

Thanks Patrick! You've got a PM!

You are right about the isolation (have to check if I did that with the diesel... I know I did it on the railbus (old Playmobil motorblock).
That 2 way switch is actually a good idea; that way you can still use it track powered.

Paul

_________________
Paul pirat
Back to top Go down
Spule 4



Location : Tennessee, USA

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:12 am

The problem with a Stainz is where would you put the bits? Trailer car?

I was going to do it with a Bachmann saddle tanker Porter, it had the room for it, but sold the project on to Kevin Strong, in trade for some European LGB cars. He did more with it than I would have.

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/8/aft/118345/afv/topic/Default.aspx

_________________
Garrett
Back to top Go down
Paulus



Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:42 am

Garrett, thanks! I was only looking for Stainz projects but you can learn from other small loco's as well indeed! That loco is awesome don't you think? I have much respect for that achievement. Some good tips also, like lead shot in the domes for weight (what can be done with the Stainz also) and the use of the Bondo/lead shot mix.

Also, this loco got me thinking about that G-Scale Graphics' "Critter Control". Manual control is perhaps an option instead of RC. Mostly I let the trains run and leave them, so perhaps it is a better (and cheaper) option.
The control switches etc. on the EBT locomotive are strongly visible at the back of the model, but are not that disturbing. If I'm planning for this kind of control I think I try to place the switches under the roof.

On the other hand, on MLS some mentioned 2,4 Ghz radio control (instead of the 27, 35 or 40 Mhz controllers). I saw a set for only 22 dollar on HobbyKing. Mmmm... I have to think it over once more... Rolling Eyes

_________________
Paul pirat
Back to top Go down
pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:20 pm

I am inclined to agree that R/c may be an overkill, I really just want to have a slow train running round and round, sort of set it off and forget about it while I sup tea and eat ginger biscuits. I was looking at the $16.50 pistol type 2,4ghz , I also found a ESC with fowrard AND reverse for BRUSH type motors at around 15 on ebay. Nearly got it all but Hobbyking wanted $14,99 postage - almost as much as the goods. It did say I could buy another 1300g of stuff - but then it gets all expensive.

I think a battery and a few switches might just do me, but is all very tempting to try.

_________________
Wake me up by noon please.

Patrick
Back to top Go down
Paulus



Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:00 pm

I think I go for the RC option. That 2,4 Ghz stuff is new to me. On MLS they state you don't have to worry about channels and frequencies anymore. How does that work actually?

I'm planning to buy a cheap 2.4 Ghz transmitter and give the G Scale Graphics Basic Railboss a try...
It has the option to leave it running (with transmitter "off") or to play with it (back/forward etc.). It also has an option for automatic stops at stations.
It has some good reviews.
Just wrote them an email with some questions.


_________________
Paul pirat
Back to top Go down
Paulus



Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:17 pm

DID IT! Just ordered a Tr/Xr set from HobbyKing. Shipping was almost more than the set itself (17,99 dollar for shipping, 22 for the set...) but still it's cheaper than buying those over here (even when the customs want their share...). It's even cheaper than a 27 Mhz transmitter over here...??? Absurd that the prices are so high in Europe.

Well, now just wait a month until it arrives Suspect

_________________
Paul pirat
Back to top Go down
Paulus



Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:19 pm

Oh... btw!

This was the answer I get from G Scale Graphics on MLS (for those interested):

2.4GHZ radios systems such as Spektrum, Hobby King, and others all use a process called "Binding". Each receiver you use is "Bound" to a transmitter. That receiver will then only respond to commands from that single transmitter (until bound to a different one, if desired). During radio transmission, there are some very sophisticated ways of changing the actual frequencies used many times per second to eliminate interference. The end result is that many (hundreds even) of people using the same equipment can operate in the same space with no interference, no frequency or channel "assignments", no crystals. Just turn it on and run.

One transmitter can be bound to multiple receivers (locomotives in our case). So you can run one train at a time with the one transmitter. Or you can run several trains each with its own transmitter and receiver combination.
So if you have multiple trains, but only run one at a time, you just turn off one locomotive (receiver), and turn on another, and away you go.

Running more than one train at a time on the same track using the same transmitter always seems to be a feature the newcomer wants. In practice, this may be very difficult and result in collisions. However, there are some other reasons to run more than one train from the same Tx; for example, you may want to have one train running on the mainline while you make some moves in the yard with another loco. This is a feature I like and use all of the time. Sneak peak: The next generation of RailBoss will have this capability (two trains from the same Tx).


Sounds good...


_________________
Paul pirat
Back to top Go down
KleineDicke



Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:15 pm

Paul:

I converted an LGB 2017 to battery/RC recently using HobbyKing hardware. The 2017 is very similar mechanically to the Stainz. I posted about my conversion here. The HobbyKing stuff works well for the money and shipping costs can be reduced by combining orders. They also have a warehouse in Germany which can save you money if they have what you want in that warehouse. BTW, I used the 4 channel transmitter and I can control two locos from it. Heres the link to a posting I made about converting the controller to work with two locos.

The biggest challenge as I see it for a Stainz is where to put the batteries. The 2017 had room in its side tanks for 6 AAA cells. No such room in Mr. Stainz; it'll have to all be crammed into the cab. But I think it can be done. I am going to try a Stainz conversion using this battery. It is rated at 12 vdc (actually 11.1v) and 1800 mA - more than enough for a Stainz or similar. I use one in a LGB 2090 Diesel and it works fine. I think the 1800 mA is a bit optimistic, but it will power my 2090 for about 45 minutes on a full charge. Best of all, it's very compact.

You must isolate the battery power from track power. I suggest using a DPDT switch, with one set of poles used to switch power to the motor (rail/battery) and the other pole for powering the receiver (rail only). This allows you to keep rail power for the motor and isolate the receiver from the rail power, so you won't over-volt it. It also lets you switch off power to the receiver when not in use so you won't drain the battery. I also recommend you install a fuse or circuit breaker (a poly-switch works nicely) on the battery to protect from shorts. If you've ever had to deal with a high amp shorted battery, you won't ask why. The Li-ion battery I showed above has a built-in circuit breaker.

I plan to use a Reversing ESC on my Stainz to save additional space - the servo/dpdt trick used on my 2017 works, but it takes up a bit more space than the single controller will. There are reversing ESCs available on eBay for less than $25 shipped.

I have also used a "Critter Controller" on one of my LGB locos; they also work well. My only complaint is they ramp the speed up and down too slowly.

As always, I have more projects/ideas than time, so I don't know when I'll get the Stainz converted. I just figured out how to open it up, so the first hurdle is complete. I'd be happy to answer any other questions you have about the conversion.

_________________
Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)


Last edited by KleineDicke on Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:42 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top Go down
pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:33 pm

Paulus wrote:
DID IT! Just ordered a Tr/Xr set from HobbyKing. Shipping was almost more than the set itself (17,99 dollar for shipping, 22 for the set...) but still it's cheaper than buying those over here (even when the customs want their share...). It's even cheaper than a 27 Mhz transmitter over here...??? Absurd that the prices are so high in Europe.

Well, now just wait a month until it arrives Suspect

Paulus , Hobbyking ship from Germany so you shouldn't have import duties and it should be with you quite soon,.

_________________
Wake me up by noon please.

Patrick
Back to top Go down
Paulus



Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:07 pm

Hobbyking state it has a warehouse in Germany but their transmitters are still shipped from the USA. So customs could charge it but because it's under 50 euro I guess they won't make a problem. All together it still is a good price for the set.
I recieved an email from Hobbyking this morning that the package is posted but it also says: YOUR ORDER MAY TAKE UP TO 45 DAYS TO ARRIVE. Let's hope it's a bit sooner than that Sad
On the other hand, I still got to start so what am I complaining about....

Bill, thanks for your information; that LGB 2017 conversion is very interesting! Pitty the Stainz does not have that much room indeed. I'm thinking (hoping) to store some AAA batteries in the tank or otherwise in the cab.
And those batteries you showed look like a fine option if the AAA's don't fit in.

The link to your post on converting the transmitter did not open (the 'c' and 'a' in 'gscale'were switched). This is the working link: www.gscalecentral.co.uk/f/m38253.aspx
It's a good option if you use the standard RC equipment. Actually that was my initial plan also but after I found the RailBoss RC units I was sold...
The RailBoss turned out very complete, not only as a speedcontrol but it has also options for light and sound (if desired). Also the possibility to switch from manual control to automatic control with automatic station stops (reed contact and magnets in track) and a complete point-to point operation.
It has a memory function, so the transmitter can be switched of while the train keeps on going. So, it's a bit more pricier than a simple ESC but it have more possibilities.
Well, the end of the story is that I indeed ordered a RaillBoss Enhanced RC unit (and 2 simple Critter Controls; 1 for my railbus and 1 for the Brekina VW railcar).
Del Tapparo from G Scale Graphics is very helpful and he mailed me he doubts if it can fit in the Stainz locomotive but I'm gonna give it a try. I can always switch to a trailer car if it does not work...

BTW, the Simple Critter Control is only a speedcontroller, perfect for continuos running. For those who only want automatic service (like the point to point operation) but does not need RC the Enhanced Critter Control would be a great idea. Just turn it on at the right speed and the control does the rest. It's on my "wanted list" for future projects...

Patrick has mailed me an exploded view and instruction sheet for the Stainz. I will start to dismantle it the next week (I keep you posted!).
Now it's waiting for the packages to arrive...

Paul
Back to top Go down
Andrew



Location : Bomaderry, New South Wales, Australia

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:05 pm

I have converted 3 Stainz over to battery. It is easy to have a trailing car but you can fit your batteries into the cab. I use Hobbyking 2.4 Ghz becuase it is a very cheap option. I have a controller for each train. The reason is that when people come to visit I give them a train to run. The rules are - You ae not to run closer than 1 metre to another train (or one arms length) and no crashes. I these rules are broken the transmitter is removed from them for ten minutes. I never have any problems with the kids, usually it is the adults that want to run at full speed.
Batteries are 16x AA 3000mAH Ni-MH NiMH Recycle Rechargeable Battery = $12 au with free postage. eBay Store: lowprice_city888
10 batteries in Stainz, 8 more needed for hobbyking transmitter.
This runs the Stainz with plenty of power and speed if needed. I removed the smoke unit, replaced the lights with led's and kept the sound unit that is in one of the Stainz. One other are fitted with mylocosound. Also I am fitting out a Aristocraft Lil Critter. It has batteries, reciever, esc and mylocosound all installed in the diesel. I can operate for at least 3 hours, by then I am tired and need a rest, so usually I have the trains running in the background as I work on some new project in my shed.
If you want a loco to just run around the track at a set speed just install batteries with an on/off switch and let her go.
check out this site for more tips on how to go about placing batteries:

http://www.trainweb.org/SaTR/glatest.htm

Regards Andrew
Back to top Go down
Paulus



Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:00 pm

Andrew, thanks for the advice on the batteries and the head-up on that Ebay seller (delivers free worldwide indeed -even to my little country- and has some sharp prices!)

Great link also! There is some very interesting stuff on that site, not only about the batteries but also on many other things like the home made track, that awesome sawmill and some very nice loco's and rolling stock. Another site to plow through and get inspired by Smile cheers


_________________
Paul pirat
Back to top Go down
Andrew



Location : Bomaderry, New South Wales, Australia

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:23 am

Paulus keep this site in your favourites. Greg is constantly updating and inventing. He was the one who showed me the way to convert to battery and the many advantages. Also you can email him and he always replies.

Hope it is beginning to warm up over there, at the moment in Sydney it is 29 degrees c and I have been up in my shed constructing a tender for my new Stainz. It is getting to the point of wandering down to the house for some relief and a drink.

Regards from Andrew
Sandbar & Mudcrab Railway
Back to top Go down
KleineDicke



Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:00 pm

It was in fact Greg who turned me on to the HobbyKing hardware. He's one of the good guys.

_________________
Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)
Back to top Go down
Paul Stainz Holt



Location : North Wales

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:19 pm

Great thread. I was toying with the idea of battery power for one of my Stainz locos - for when the track has ice on it rendering track power ineffective.
It would also give a third running option besides track power and live steam.
I was considering a simple on off switch to just send the loco off at constant speed.

_________________
Excellent Austrian narrow gauge in North Wales.

Website http://linzgstadtbahn.webs.com/
Back to top Go down
http://linzgstadtbahn.webs.com/
mikeyh



Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:09 pm

I guess its an age thing but i can have three trains running round at the same time with none of this digital stuff, no AA Batteriesand no RC, just three 12 volt batteries from old drills!! Not had any accidents yet, just spent some time getting to know their relevant speeds ( all stainz's)
the only thing is that they have to travel in the same direction!! I use power trailers (open wagons with tarpaulins)

mikey
Back to top Go down
Andrew



Location : Bomaderry, New South Wales, Australia

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:11 pm

One of the best times I've had was at Greg Hunters. All visitors had one of his trains, and as we were all used to following each other (track power), we were surprised when one started running a different direction and stopped at all stations for different lenghts of time.
We had to actually walk with our train, working out where we would meet and where we would have to use the sidings to pass.
Not only do you drive your train to suit others speed & conditions, you have to stop to avoid creating an impassable "bottleneck" as gregs track winds up into a loop in his shed. It makes great fellowship, becuase you have to talk with the others to know what they intend to do and where they are going. You have to work out which way the points are set, and you look at what is happening 1 or 2 locos ahead to avoid trouble.
It was this enjoyable action that opened my eyes to the advantages of individual battery power.
My first conversion was with Aristcraft Revolution. This is a great remote system, but the cost per unit would be over $300 for each loco. If I had the money I would go this way.
That is why I have Hobbyking equipment, set up Greg's way. A much cheaper option that works well.
I leave the trains on my sidings when I have finished, drop some battery charge leads down and hook up to trickle charge over night. I have small bolts protruding from the locos. I remember that nautical terms "when looking ahead then left is red or port"
Red is the positive side to connect to. On other peoples conversions I cut a small diamond from red insulation tape and stick it next to the positive terminal. The great advantage is that I do not have to remove batteries for charging. I also wire the loco with an on/off switch so when charging all the system is disconnected, so I don't accidently fry any of the recievers,etc.
I am currently building a tender for my open Stainz to install batteries and gear. It is the black open one, a photo is at
http://continental-garden-t.motionforum.net/t476-new-photos-of-sandbar-and-mudcrab-railways
The tender in this photo has a usa trains motor block installed as extra pulling power. That tender is being modified with the motor block removed. If this loco was not open I could fit a lot of "stuff" into the cabin.

Regards to all from Andrew
Sandbar & Mudcrab Railway
Back to top Go down
pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:00 pm

A few days ago I managed to track down a pair of Basic Critters at a very reasonable price (new). The only problem now is the switches - I worked out DPDT all on my lonesome, however, there are several types to be had, on-on/on-off, on-off-on (the one I thought I needed) , now I find there is DPDT-CO (doublepole-changeover). I do know I don't want (on)-off-(on) these are momentary switches used for points.

I wanted one to change direction and possibly the choice of track/off/battery.

I am now officially confused. So I need to be pointed in the right direction and possibly a drawing of the wiring connections, and can I use the same type of switch for both purposes.

_________________
Wake me up by noon please.

Patrick
Back to top Go down
Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:22 am

Patrick....DPDT = Double Pole Double Throw, these are (often called) change-over switches anyway. The CO usually refers to centre-off.

That is a DPDTCO switch will have 3 fixed positions, up - middle (off, no contact) - down

These switches can be used for many different configurations and uses, not just changeover.

But this is the one you need.

This is how they are wired for your purpose.


If it is a toggle/lever switch:
When the switch is in the centre obviously no contact is made. When the switch is thrown 'lever down' contact is made with both upper poles Track - Motor and when the switch is thrown 'lever up' contact is made with both lower poles Battery to motor.
If it is a slide switch then it makes contact the same as the switch position.

For completeness below is a DPDT switch wired to reverse the polarity of something.



A word of caution. The 'sub-miniature switches' do not usually have sufficient current rating as the internal contacts are tiny and close together. A set of nicads or similar at 2 or 3 ah should have a decent switch AND a fuse.


Last edited by Carl Hibbs on Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:52 am

Thanks Carl, I must admit that the amperage never crossed my mind much and, as for a fuse well !!! . Can I get away with "miniature" ?

The diags are very useful as well.

_________________
Wake me up by noon please.

Patrick
Back to top Go down
Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:08 pm

pjti wrote:
Thanks Carl, I must admit that the amperage never crossed my mind much and, as for a fuse well !!! . Can I get away with "miniature" ?


Probably but check the current rating. They are often rated about 1.5 or 2 amps @ 125 Volts AC which usually is safe at about 5 amps 24 volts DC.

These should be okay:
Conrad DPDTCO

Also if the current rating is high then the switch quality will often be better and (literally) will not melt meekly into oblivion when threatened with a soldering iron.

Back to top Go down
pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:34 pm

fffffff.............ffffffffffffffffff..............fffffffffffffffffffffffff.........4.90 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for (1)

I can get 5,000,000 chinese ones off ebay for that

_________________
Wake me up by noon please.

Patrick
Back to top Go down
KleineDicke



Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:58 pm

Actually to isolate track power from battery power, you only need a SPDT (single pole double throw) switch; the center off position isn't really needed either. On many LGB locos, you can't easily isolate one side of the track power with switches and wires anyway. But since there is generally little difference in price, a DPDT will work as well. Reversing the polarity does require a DPDT - with or without center off.

I agree with Carl's warning about sub-miniature switches. I also find it almost impossible for my old eyes and fat fingers to solder a wire cleanly to one.

4.90 euros is quite expensive indeed- even more expensive than RadioShack!

I am currently converting my Spreewald to use battery power from a trailer car. The power will be provided via a power jack which will open one of the contacts when the plug in inserted, thereby disconnecting the track power when the battery power plug is inserted (effectively a SPDT switch). I'll post some pictures when I finish the project.

_________________
Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?    Today at 12:17 am

Back to top Go down
 
RC/battery for LGB Stainz. Some advice anyone?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 4Go to page : 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Continental Garden Trains :: Continental Garden Trains index :: Model locomotives and rolling stock-
Jump to: