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 Push-me-pull-me?

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mikeyh

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Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Push-me-pull-me?   Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:16 pm

A bit of a longshot perhaps, but has anybody got any knowledge (book reference/pictures etc) of French locos running tender first and pushing their train rather than pulling?

My new extension will run to a terminus rather than round a loop so i was hoping that perhaps they would have reversed direction rather than use a turntable. I would prefer a railbus that could go either direction but as the line is based in 1910 it has proved difficult to find such a thing!

Mikey
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KleineDicke

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Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

PostSubject: Re: Push-me-pull-me?   Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:59 pm

Running in reverse doesn't seem to be something the French railroads were fond of doing. But always remember... there's a prototype for everything. Smile Perhaps a bicabine?
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Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)
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mikeyh

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Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Push-me-pull-me?   Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:44 pm

Nice loco but it wouldn't really help. I've got lots of examples of locos running tender first. Some. like the open backed Corpets, were specifically designed for that but that was after negotiating a passing loop and therefore' pulling' the train. i just want to arrive at the terminus pulling a few carriages and then just putting everything into reverse.I could just do it but then some smart alec would say they never did that!

Mikey
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dtsteam

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Location : Preston, England

PostSubject: Re: Push-me-pull-me?   Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:16 pm

Howsabout a flat bit at the start of a mountain railway. I typed out a more expansive reply which didn't post, but in summary - loco at the back, propelling coaches chimney (not tender) first, with a guard on the platform of a balcony coach at the leading end. If this sounds plausible we can do some digging around for suitable prototypes.
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mikeyh

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Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Push-me-pull-me?   Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:52 am

definately plausible! and a good idea. I've looked through lots of postcards but cant find anything but of course with a static picture its hard to tell whether the engine is pushing or pulling!!

mikey
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mikeyh

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Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Push-me-pull-me?   Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:08 am

For example; is this loco pulling a train down (albeit with brakes on!) or pushing train up?



mikey
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dtsteam

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Location : Preston, England

PostSubject: Re: Push-me-pull-me?   Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:27 am

Either, thats the point.
If its going up it will be drawing juice and pushing the train. If its going down the motors will be running as generators to give a braking effect and feeding current back into the overhead.
In the case of a steam loco it will effectively coast down hill pushed backwards, but in forward gear with a tiny amount of steam admitted to the cylinders to offer some resistance.

I'll have a dig around as well
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mikeyh

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Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Push-me-pull-me?   Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:32 am

thanks for that, at least I now know its possible and more than likely probable!

mikey
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KleineDicke

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Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

PostSubject: Re: Push-me-pull-me?   Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:28 pm

Rack railways in particular run with the loco at the downhill end of the train, primarily for safety. With the steep slope, the loco had the only effective braking (against the rails and the rack) and running with the loco downhill prevents a runaway carriage should a coupler fail.

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Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)
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Carl Hibbs
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Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Push-me-pull-me?   Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:34 pm

Mikey...
How about a steam railcar? Automotrice vapeur.
They would have been used during your modelling period.

There's even a nice chap who has plans for one:

45mm steam railcar

Although I'm sure with your ingenuity you can build your own.
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mikeyh

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Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Push-me-pull-me?   Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:40 pm

Yes Carl a railcar would be ideal, but its been a continuing saga searching for a picture of something that was around in 1910 ( give or take a few years) I could change the time of the layout to after the first war but then i would have to change all the figures costumes! I hadnt seen those plans. could be useful

mikey
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Carl Hibbs
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Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Push-me-pull-me?   Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:45 pm

A STEAM RAILCAR Mikey...
These were in use from the late 1880's and most certainly by around 1910 they were quite modern.

Automtrices vapeur

Purrey

I'll try and find some pics of metre gauge ones too.
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dtsteam

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Location : Preston, England

PostSubject: Re: Push-me-pull-me?   Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:23 pm

If its a short branch, howsabout a short railcar ?
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Carl Hibbs
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Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Push-me-pull-me?   Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:02 pm

I think we may have done this before but I did fid evidence of a petrol railcar from 1905.

See this.

Turgan et Foy
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mikeyh

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Location : Dordogne France

PostSubject: Re: Push-me-pull-me?   Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:41 am

duh! Yes I remember now! We spent a lot of time looking for a petrol driven railcar of appropriate date! I completely forgot about a steamdriven one. ( I'll take a hundred lines and promise to pay attention in future!)

mikey
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Spule 4



Location : Tennessee, USA

PostSubject: Re: Push-me-pull-me?   Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:45 pm

mikeyh wrote:
For example; is this loco pulling a train down (albeit with brakes on!) or pushing train up?



mikey

Thanks, this will bug me all day now! affraid

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Garrett
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philkelly

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Location : Vienne, France and Islington. London

PostSubject: Re: Push-me-pull-me?   Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:16 pm

Surely the loco is always at the lower end on a mountain railway - pushing up, braking down. That way, if a coupling breaks, the coaches (lighter) are always uphill of the loco (heavier)?
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