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 Alas poor Edrig ! Flameouts

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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Alas poor Edrig ! Flameouts   Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:57 pm

Following on from the previous thread - I used Golden Hermetite. No leaks now.

But now I have a BIG problem affraid

I can get the fire going and get a good head of steam but as soon as I open the regulator and apply reverser ( whichever way) it kills the flame almost immediately. I figured it might be a fracture or pinhole in the superheater but having stripped everything down I can't find anything wrong.

When the flame goes I have a lot of trouble relighting the burner, the flame will not go back down the tube but burns fiercely in the smokebox (not good), sometimes it's so bad that I can't ignite at all it actually blows my lighter out, I can hear the gas coming through and have checked for obstructions in the gas line. I don't think it's a gas feed problem.


I am at a loss as to why I lose the flame as soon as I try to apply steam to the wheels, I can only think of the superheater being the root cause BUT it seems intact.


Anyone - any ideas ?
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Alas poor Edrig ! Flameouts   Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:01 pm

There's certainly steam getting into the burner, that's why it won't relight very easily.

I think it has to be the superheater, one end or the other; There are two elbow connections, one in the cab just by the burner housing and the other - which can be difficult to get tight, in the smokebox.

When you open the regulator with the reverser in neutral that will just put fresh steam into the superheater pipe.

If there is a leak in this case in the superheater pipe the pressure will decrease dramatically.

When you the move the reverser with the regulator closed only the existing steam in the pipe will enter the cylinders.

If there is a leak in this case in the superheater pipe then the pressure should stay the same as the regulator is closed.

Not sure if that helps you very much.

But a few things to consider if not done already;

Have you inspected the burner itself?
And also when did this new problem start...after you fixed the last leak?
Is the saftey valve operating correctly? Maybe there's too much pressure.

Let us know how you get on.
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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: Alas poor Edrig ! Flameouts   Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:38 pm

"When did it all start ?"

Well Doctor Carl, it all started when I was very young and just had this desire to take things apart to see what made them work, (in those days I could remember how they went back too).

Edrig is now on the operating table with bits everywhere. Everything has a thick coating of steam oil - the superheater is not coked up tho. When things started getting hot there would be some crackling and spitting then great plumes of smoke would appear from somewhere underneath, it has always done this so I think it is normal. Could be the chuff pipe is/was a bit of a loose fit and oil was getting cooked as it escaped from the union.

I applied your logic re regulator/ reverser before I pulled it apart and could not deduce anything from it All I could work out was that once regulator was open with some reverser it killed the flame.

I did try looking down the firebox before and after flameout to see what was happening but alas nothing. There was no evidence of a steam escape from the inner workings - BUT - I am wondering if the fact that everything would have been red hottish would have hidden the fact that steam was escaping, that is to say that steam in cold air is very visible but what about steam in a very hot environment ? I would have thought that there would be a lot of water in evidence if this was the case, but none is apparent.

I have pulled the safety because it was weeping and blowing at about 40, it now blows at 60 which I believe is correct, I wouldn't normally run at this pressure but was testing the valve and checking for leaks.


I've just had an idea !!!!!!!!!!!! Back later. Ok I'll share it, on Edrig the water level plug/banjo is directly inline with the burner, (yes I have fiddled/modified same) now it could be that I do still have a TINY leak that is being directed directly onto the burner/gas jet assembly thereby doing something to affect things, dunno what but will have to put it all back together to see. But that would not be affected by the regulator/regulator setting would it ?

BAH



Phew - don't hold yer breath.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Alas poor Edrig ! Flameouts   Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:06 pm

pjti wrote:
"When did it all start ?"

....When things started getting hot there would be some crackling and spitting then great plumes of smoke would appear from somewhere underneath, it has always done this so I think it is normal. ...

Yes this is normal for most Accucraft locos.


pjti wrote:

I've just had an idea !!!!!!!!!!!! Back later. Ok I'll share it, on Edrig the water level plug/banjo is directly inline with the burner, (yes I have fiddled/modified same) now it could be that I do still have a TINY leak that is being directed directly onto the burner/gas jet assembly thereby doing something to affect things, dunno what but will have to put it all back together to see. But that would not be affected by the regulator/regulator setting would it ?

BAH



Phew - don't hold yer breath.

It is possible that could be the cause. I actually had a problem with a Roundhouse toy once with the tiniest drip of water directly onto the burner when the regulator was openened.
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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: Alas poor Edrig ! Flameouts   Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:32 pm

Ok I'm back - took a bit longer than I thought, actually I only did it this afternoon.

Edrig had been stripped, I checked the superheater tube as best I could by blowing in it in a jug of water - no bubbles.

Decided to put it all back together carefully, used gold hermetite on the banjos - I did find an odd fibre washer on my bench I guess it must have fallen off sometime.


I fired him up and waited, pressure rose to 60 and the valve blew and kept blowing back down to 40, ( that was something I had adjusted earlier - much better). No problems with flameouts this time and it just kept going(on blocks) until the gas ran out. After I had shut it all off the pressure remained in the boiler, something it hadn't done before. So it's looks like things are sorted.

I think the culprit was that banjo on the water level plug, I had made one up as I have modified the pipework to exhaust in front of the cylinders using a globe valve. (Thanks to Tag Gortons Book) There was a bit of silver soldering that had not been filed flush enough and I think it was blowing steam when under high pressure directly onto the burner. Anyway sorted it out.

One other tip . One reads of modifying the burner using steel mesh to get a quieter burn, I actually used the "foil" from an old shaver, I think it's stainless, rolled it up and pushed it INSIDE the burner - one word - MAGIC.
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PostSubject: Re: Alas poor Edrig ! Flameouts   Today at 2:26 am

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