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 Troy's Live Diesel

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clive_t




PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:05 pm

Great stuff - was the 'thumbs up' at the end an indication you were happy with the test outcome, or just boasting that you had an intact thumb at the end of it! Laughing
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ralphbrades



Location : Derby UK

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:21 pm

Why is everyone else's engine easier to start than mine?!?!?!?

Seriously congratulations on a good test run. I am curious -you seem to be using an outside runner motor -so are you rectifying the three phases in sum or parallel?

regards

ralph

PS dabs on the wooden spoon -this evening I blew up the pump drain timer system...
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:14 am

Well....That's it then, a success, excellent cheers

I'm very glad to see that the same simple concept works for other people.

I notice the 3 phase encapsulated rectifier rather than separate diodes. I think I will do that too.
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Sparkeswood



Location : Kent,England

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:53 pm

Yep.Really pleased with the whole project. Very Happy
Didn't really do much myself though.Just stuck all the bits together that Carl has perfected,tried and tested so all the credit is his cheers

Anybody tried any of these ? (and I've missed it)

Timing belts and pulleys.

I thought it might be a good transmission method and if no-one else has tried it I'll buy the bits and test it out.

The thumbs up Clive is just a satisfied test result.No reference to Carl's thumb Wink

Ralph...havn't a clue.Don't do electrics. Laughing
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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:03 pm

Just caught up with the videos. That engine starts so easily - well done. But -- what is that thing you stick on the head when you start it please, when I were a lad we plugged a battery and clip on the glow plug.


_________________
Wake me up by noon please.

Patrick
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ralphbrades



Location : Derby UK

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:20 pm

Troy,

The aluminium timing pulleys and their belts are not really suited to high speed use. For connecting the axles to the power unit -they are superb. My NYC "S" Motor uses them to connect all 4 driving axles together. I am using a smooth pulley and round belt -which will be "softer" for speed changes as it will slip.

Patrick,

The thing is a starter -it is basically a "C" size NiCd with a spring loaded grasping connector on the end. The charger for mine has an end like a glow plug connector and takes 4 hours to charge the starter.

regards

ralph
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:32 pm

Sparkeswood wrote:
Yep.Really pleased with the whole project. Very Happy
Didn't really do much myself though.Just stuck all the bits together that Carl has perfected,tried and tested so all the credit is his cheers

Embarassed It's a simple concept.

Sparkeswood wrote:
Anybody tried any of these ? (and I've missed it)

Timing belts and pulleys

I thought it might be a good transmission method and if no-one else has tried it I'll buy the bits and test it out.

The thumbs up Clive is just a satisfied test result.No reference to Carl's thumb Wink

Ralph...havn't a clue.Don't do electrics. Laughing

I believe Jerry Hyde and Bob Pope in the USA used belt drive from the the engine to the motor.
I haven't got any decent pictures or links to hand but there is a lot of information on the MLS forum.

Although on Bob Popes second engine I believe he used gears.

I had thought about it but never tried. You wouldn't be able to keep the clutch unless you modified the bell housing to take a pulley. If you dispensed with the clutch and had a permanent drive connection it would make hand starting difficult, too much strain on the pull starter. Then you would need electric starting......


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Sparkeswood



Location : Kent,England

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:36 pm

I've ordered a few of the pulleys and belts and see where that takes me.
I would really like to find a possible replacement for a GX12 clutch mech before I decide to play about but can't find one.
I can see the problems involved Carl and I'm not inclined to lose the pull start as it works very well but I would like to play about with the engine\generator location (using belts,if it works)and try a few ideas out.The lack of engine spares though is a worry for me Very Happy

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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:47 pm

There is no lack of engine spares. Smile
Most parts can be sourced on E bay from dealers, including pull starters.

The Kyosho GX12 is one of the most popular small engines and many parts also fit the GX15 plus a few other models.

Small engine clutches are fairly standard on 5 mm shafts with a 2 pin flywheel, 2 shoe plates with an external spring.

These are pretty rudementary even when upgraded to ally shoes. I have cobbled parts together for a 3 shoe clutch assembly and internal springing which is claimed to be more efficient, but yet to try.



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Sparkeswood



Location : Kent,England

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:58 am

You're quite right Very Happy
Popped over to my local model shop and aquired the whole lot.Clutch housing,shoes,springs,bearings ect.
This allows me to play about with a little leeway.
Also,all the belts,pulleys and special adhesives turned up this morning (bloody good service Cool ).I'd also ordered a 5mm bearing to fit over the shaft to steady the front of the generator.
Wish me luck Wink
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Sparkeswood



Location : Kent,England

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:16 pm

OK.
The pullies and belts don't really work.No problem with the concept but the belt,being so small and therefore quiet thick,doesn't allow for a smooth tickover.
It did hold out quite impressively at high revs,with no slippage whatsoever.
so,I'm back to the clutch with a 13 tooth on it and a 19 tooth on the generator.
I'm finding that I'm having to use high revs to get the clutch to engage.Is it sossible to stretch the spring a bit to make it engage quicker and at lower revs?
I'm going to remove the clutch tonight and run a 12 tooth on the motor with the 19 tooth,direct cogs.

Carl...I notice from your video that you're not revving very high.Am I missing something?
I'm almost there.The engine and mixture is perfect.Just these little niggles to sort out and then I can start to lay it out on the chassis.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:00 pm

You're right to do all your testing on the bench first.

Quote :
I'm going to remove the clutch tonight and run a 12 tooth on the motor with the 19 tooth, direct cogs.

Are you removing the clutch altogether? And fitting the gear direct to the crankshaft.

If you do this I shall be interested to see if the engine starts ok without too much strain on the pull starter.

The reason why mine doesn't rev too high is that I have a 13 tooth gear on the generator and a 14 tooth on the engine. This is not so smooth as a higher gear though although it produces more volts per rpm.

You may want to check the clutch plates. My original plastic ones wore quite badly and slipped.
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Sparkeswood



Location : Kent,England

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:37 pm

Sorry about the belated reply.

I tried the cogs directly on the crank (removing the clutch.).Started fine(also started OK with the belt and pulleys directly connected,despite the added drag) but I

didn't like the vibration.This is probably because the motor needs tightening down a bit on the base.

So,I'm back to the clutch with a 13 tooth and a 12 tooth on the generator.This seems to work best after all my fluffing about.

I'm pleased though that I've tried other avenues as I have a basis for other projects.

Now then...exhausts......Brass box filled with stuff...wooden box ?

This is my next thing and then it all goes on the chassis cheers

I would still like the clutch to bite quicker though so I'm going to replace the clutch shoes and try stretching the spring a bit.

Once again the engine is running great.Running it in slowly has obviously done it's job.



Last edited by Sparkeswood on Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sparkeswood



Location : Kent,England

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:43 pm

....just a thought though. Smile

What motor are you using?

I'm currently (excuse the pun) using a LGB block which would take a fair bit more to make it move.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:29 pm

I'm using a USA Trains motor bogie which is much the same.

I have tried powering 2 and it seems to make no difference with load on the generator.

Exhaust is just a birch ply box. Intake at the top and out pipe goes down to the bottom with a couple of wooden half-baffles.

I did try stuffing with foam, very quiet.....uncannily quiet in fact but blooming messy with oily sludge.

If you take the spring off the clutch plates they will disengage when the engine is not running (good for starting) but engage almost immediately when the engine runs.

Found this out by accident when the spring broke. Laughing
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Sparkeswood



Location : Kent,England

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:12 pm

Carl Hibbs wrote:


If you take the spring off the clutch plates they will disengage when the engine is not running (good for starting) but engage almost immediately when the engine runs.

Found this out by accident when the spring broke. Laughing


Ahhh.
I'll give that a go tomorrow night. Smile
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:44 pm

What clutch plates are you using? The original Kyosho plastic/nylon type or replacement aluminium ones?

It may not work with gummy plastic ones. They might just stick to the bellhousing. silent
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Sparkeswood



Location : Kent,England

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:28 pm

I have the plastic ones and have a spare set.

I'll give it a go and see what happens Shocked

Andrea's quite used to me in the conservatory,decked out in goggles ect,trying to avoid flying bits of machinery bom
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Sparkeswood



Location : Kent,England

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:51 pm

Works perfectly without the clutch spring.

I can keep the revs much lower and makes it far more controllable. Very Happy
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:47 pm

Good, that's another thing to add to the learning list. Laughing

I presume it will work for 3 shoe clutches as well.

Are you powering the traction motor directly (via the rectifier of course)or are you going through a switch because even at engine idle speed of about 3k rpm there will be current generated.

I have a sort of simple PCB commutator on the throttle servo that acts as a reverser as well.

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Sparkeswood



Location : Kent,England

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:20 pm

Yes I'm directly connected to the motors at the moment.I shall put an inline switch in to allow me to rev the motor without the wheels turning.

I've actually forgotten about reverse Embarassed .I'll look about to see what's available.

Start putting it all on the chassis tomorrow so hopefully by this time next week it should have it's first outing on the track Laughing
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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:33 pm

Idea Use 2 halves of the servo throw for the throttle with idle in the centre.

An arm operates the throttle and an extension of the same arm operates a DPDT switch.
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Sparkeswood



Location : Kent,England

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:51 pm

You've completely lost me there Carl Embarassed
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Sparkeswood



Location : Kent,England

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:10 pm

Today's work..









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Sparkeswood



Location : Kent,England

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:19 pm

All ready to go and my glowplug stick is flat Crying or Very sad

Maybe tomorrow.

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Carl Hibbs
Admin


Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:59 pm

That looks just awesome...... Cool

What's the material for the chassis? Is it some sort of paxolin?
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PostSubject: Re: Troy's Live Diesel   Today at 6:04 am

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